I would also love to take a look at the training manual you worked on!

These are great questions. First, note that standards are not the same thing as forms. Dawn Tull talks about this in her article “Geography Using Map Questions.” The “five minutes in observing the spelling and punctuation” applies to Standards 3 and 4, which apparently corresponds to Form II. Second, the “five minutes” seems to only apply to written narrations. It refers to “spelling and punctuation,” so I don’t think its purpose is to help with recalling names. It seems to me to be a kind of preparation for writing, combining elements of dictation with written narration. I have never heard of this before and it may not have been standard practice in the PNEU. Finally, I agree with you that the number of children performing oral narrations is small. This letter was written in 1917, about ten years before the introduction of the group system, which addressed this problem. I took the phrase “the ability of the children” to refer to the class as a whole, indicating that “depending on the difficulty of the subject-matter,” it may be that only few are able to narrate. This too I think could be addressed by the group system.

Thank you for letting me know. I am so glad you found this episode helpful!

Praise God!

Wow, Karen! That is such a neat link to the past and Charlotte Mason that you met Eve Anderson! I am adding her book to my TBR stack.

And Art, thank you so much for your attention to detail in this amazing article. I learn so much from these posts! Re-reading Volume 3 has encouraged me to follow some rabbit trails as I look up references like Professor James, Herbart, and more.

Perhaps, start with a blank weekly schedule, fill in the blocks with the “musts” and then go from there. The principles are more important than the actual times as they have to work for you.

Philip,

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my article and share your thoughts! It’s incredibly gratifying to hear from someone like you, who has worked for so many years in higher education and sees a similar issue with its current format. I wholeheartedly agree with so much of what you say and appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

In the limited amount of research I have done, I have also found that the closest thing to a Mason college is the Great Books schools or a couple of specific honors programs. I actually recently changed my plan and am now attending the University of Northwestern St. Paul because of their honors program that they started up last year, and that seeks to emulate the Tory Honors Program at Biola. However, even these unique programs are far from perfect or totally true to Mason’s principles.

Thanks for mentioning those books; I certainly plan on reading them once I get my hands on them.

I absolutely love the “new wine in old wineskins” analogy, and it is actually one that I have often thought about for this topic. Because, as you say, this concept of higher education is fundamentally different from what currently exists, and therefore more than simple reform is needed.

There are certainly challenges with incorporating Mason’s philosophy in more technical disciplines. I do believe, however, that there have to be ways that it can be applied because of how broad and all-encompassing her philosophy is. That being said, I do not pretend to know how this can be accomplished. Have there been any ways that you have been able to incorporate Mason’s philosophy into your Finance classes? Or is the system you are in simply set up in a way that this is impossible?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Please reach out if you are interested in discussing this further.

In my opinion, the closest Mason-like higher educatioin options would be one of the Great Books schools like Thomas Aquinas College (CA) or St. Johns College (MD), or the Torrey honors program at Biola (CA), or possibly the new University of Austin (TX). Other good liberal arts colleges like Wheaton, Calvin, Wofford (where I teach), Samford, Hillsdale, Gordon, or Westmont will be a mixed bag depending on the individual department and professors.

Sadly, what you are envisioning is really a different kind of institution of higher education than what currently exists. In books like “The Future of Christian Higher Education” (Dockery) and “The Idea of a Christian College” (Holmes) the question has been raised before you and continues to stand. The need remains. This is probably a “new wine in old wineskins” kind of challenge in which entreprenuership will be required rather than reformation. There reamins the complex questions of how technical disciplines (like mine in Finance) incorporate and embrace the pedigogical wisdom of Mason. And there are the practical challenges of resources (faculty, campuse facilities, etc) for building a community of learning that can embody a Mason philosophy in a tangible higher education setting. Perhaps God is instilling a vision in the next generation like you to take on this challenge and create what does not yet exist, but which is desperately needed in our world – for our good and for God’s glory.

I’m sorry, Idyll Challenge VI was announced on June 30, and all the groups (except the men’s group) are now full 😔

Sheila,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful, encouraging comments! It is extremely encouraging to me to hear that others are also hoping and praying for Charlotte Mason’s living education to continue through the college years. Your prayers are also greatly appreciated, as no human effort will ever bring this about, and it can only come about through God’s will and power. You absolutely may share this article, and in fact I would much prefer that you do so, so that the conversation may spread and more people can share their thoughts and ideas on the topic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Karissa,

Thank you so much for taking the time to read through my article and share your thoughts on the subject! I actually just became aware of the Torrey Honors Program at Biola University, and also a new Honors Program at the University of Northwestern St. Paul that seeks to teach higher education in a different, more personal, and living way. I am not familiar with either of those programs, so I will definitely have to do my research into both of them. The educational model that you described in your experience in the Torrey Honors Program sounds super interesting and delightful, so thank you for sharing that. Were you homeschooled using the Mason method, or have you taught any of your kids using the Mason method? If so, in your experience, would you say that the Torrey Honors Program is comparable to the style and level of learning employed in a Mason homeschool group? Or are there ways that even the Torrey Honors Program could improve?

I believe your question about what the distinctiveness of university should be truly is a question worth all of us pondering. Is broad learning necessary or even truly a benefit after high school education, or should college just be a time of focused study of one’s proposed career field (something that I would say, apart from trade schools, does not occur for at least half the classes that a student takes)?

To your final point about utilitarian education having its place in later years, I would say that certainly that is true, and focused training or learning for a specific job, such as a doctor, lawyer, or even engineer, must take place. But could a CM trade school exist? I truly do not know the answer to this, but the fact that Mason’s method is a method of not just high school learning, but actually a way to live, learn, and walk in fellowship with the Creator leads me to believe that it could. Perhaps the current system of utilitarian higher education is so different from a Mason education that it really couldn’t work. Or maybe that just means that such a school would have to be radically different from all others and encounter many challenges along the way. Do you believe such a school could be possible? Or does the Mason method have a limit and only a certain boundary within which it can operate? If so, where should that boundary line be drawn? I would love to hear all your thoughts on this if you have a chance to respond!

You are welcome to fill out the form and check the box next to groups that are waiting list only.

By focusing on “lives well-lived” rather than polished, unattainable icons of perfection, we give children—and ourselves—something far more valuable than mere information. We gain a living canvas of human choices, struggles, and quiet convictions. These narratives don’t just teach us about the past; they act as mirror and map, igniting our own “empathic imagination,” cultivating courage, and showing us what is possible when faith, curiosity, and character are lived out in the real world.

Amanda,

You did get into your requested group, and I did sent out a confirmation email on June 30. Perhaps it was rejected as spam? The email came from art@charlottemasonpoetry.org.

Blessings,
Art

Carolina,

I have asked my contact at Descobrindo Charlotte Mason to consider making a Portuguese translation of this article.

Blessings,
Art

I took great pleasure in the Torrey Honors Program at Biola University. You read the living texts and the ‘homework’ is to write real, personal notes on the reading and a post-class reflection. Classroom time is 3hr discussion with your cohort sparked from a thoughtful opening question from the tutor that challenges you to dig into the text together. You write an essay or do a project each term, and attend a handful of your choice of lovely evening lectures. You are in a cohort which is responsible for a short devotion each session, and in the upper years you prepare with a tutor and lead a session yourself. Instead of tests you take an oral exam of open-ended questions.

I came for the books and the lack of busywork and tests, but I discovered how beautiful the discipine of good discussion is. You also are assigned a tutor as a mentor, which was invaluable. I could go on. However, the honors program only covers (most of) the undergrad requirements, which you’ve already made progress in – the Biola majors are mostly typical fare althoughthe seminary profs I had were top notch. Also, it’s painfully expensive.

St John’s College follows a similar design, but for the whole degree. It does not call itself Christian or secular (‘non-affiliated’), which obviously is an important lack of Principle 20. However, they not only do the mainstream Great Books (including the Bible), but also classical math and science texts, language, and music – talk about a feast! I’ve done free online seminars with them through the Teacher’s Institute and loved the one on Galileo’s “Two New Sciences” especially. They only offer the one B.A. – in ‘Liberal Arts’ – although I heard they’re renaming it. I do think there’s non CM-ideas mixed up in there and some keys to unity missing, but I have considered their M.A. in Middle-Eastern Classics, not for the degree, but because of how closely they come to my idea of a living college education.

One question worth pondering: if we believe in life-long learning for everyone, what should be the distinctives of university? Especially a ‘liberal arts university.’ Is college just a focused, privileged expression of that learning, or is it a different beast all together? I vaguely recollect Mason saying utilitarian education has its place in later years once the foundation of living education has been laid, but we are not (yet) talking about a CM trade school.

Nelson,

Thank you for this request. This has been on my to-do list for a while, but your comment has prompted me to move it to the top of the list. Stay tuned!

Regards,
Art

Would it be possible to get a transcript of this presentation?

Thanks,

Nelson

Jessica,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! I wholeheartedly agree with so much that you say here. The education standards currently in place certainly make it difficult to incorporate Mason’s ideas into a college setting, but I totally agree with you that I think it is possible with God’s guidance and some hard work. I also definitely agree that some colleges seem to implement some of Mason’s methods, but don’t really follow through with her whole philosophy of education. I believe that Patrick Henry College is one such college, but I’m curious what other colleges you have found are like that? A complete revitalization of the higher education setting may be needed in order to truly affect change, instead of patchwork solutions that implement bits and pieces of Mason’s method into the current college setting.

Tammi,

How encouraging to hear that for years you have been thinking many of the same thoughts that I talked about in this article. It is super cool for me to hear that I am not alone in this desire for Mason’s method to be implemented in higher education, so thank you for sharing your thoughts. It definitely sounds like my older brother and I had a very similar college experience to your sons with trying a mix of online classes and community college classes before eventually having to venture out to a 4-year college. Thank you for your prayers!

There are some colleges that show a spark of Charlotte’s method, but as you look closer they don’t really follow through. Because of the current standards put on education, and the definition which is being used to define education, it is going to be very hard to incorporate Charlotte’s ideas into the mainstream. However, her ideas didn’t just happen in k-12 education either, it took time for the roots to grow.

Lindsey,

How amazing that you have been praying for many of the same things that I have been recently discovering and starting to pray for! It is super encouraging to me to hear that I am not the only one who is desiring and praying for a change in higher education and a way to implement Mason’s living ideas into a college setting. I am so thankful that God can use me to be a small source of encouragement and inspiration to those who have long been praying for this to happen. My prayer is that God can use me somehow to further this idea and hope. I sincerely appreciate your prayers!

RaeAnna,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I will definitely be interested to see if my major specific classes are any different or if I find my experiences to be the same as my general core classes. Isn’t it so cool when modern science exactly backs up what Charlotte Mason said over a hundred years ago? It reminds me of the increasing evidence for the Bible that modern science keeps discovering. Mason was a brilliant woman and followed the Holy Spirit and we know that her principles and practices really do work so it’s so awesome to see modern science also start to corroborate that.

Mariana,
Thank you so much for reading the article and for your kind words. Your prayers are greatly appreciated!

Keep up the great work!

Donna,

The schedule we are all following may be found here: https://charlottemasonpoetry.org/idyll-schedule-vi/

Blessings,
Art

Thank you. We’ve received your registration, and you’ve been added to the waiting list for this group!

Dear Lib,

Thank you for your interest in the Idyll Challenge. I am so sorry that it has not worked out for you yet. I really wish that we could offer more groups and more spaces. Unfortunately, we are 100% volunteer driven and all of our offerings are 100% free, so that by necessity limits us much more than if we were a professional organization. But our reading schedule is free, and we encourage people to form groups around this reading schedule and to follow along with us. I am always happy to answer any questions that may come up in your reading, or offer advice on starting a group.


Blessings,
Art

Thank you for the kind words. And, oh my, congratulations on graduating your ninth child! I can hardly imagine. God bless you all!

I love to hear this so much. Be encouraged! My CM education doesn’t look like my friends. But it still is a Charlotte Mason education. We’ve built beautiful memories around living books, nature, and making sure that the Holy Spirit is the teacher. You can do this!!