ABCDEI

EP41 DEIB doesn't stop at talent attraction with Dr Jim Kanichirayil

Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:29:40 +0000

Welcome to another episode of ABCDEI, a podcast that explores topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion through stories of distinct and powerful lived experiences.

Today, host Susan Diaz sits down with Dr. Jim Kanichirayil, self-described 'professional megaphone', who highlights innovation in DEIB, and HR tech.

Susan and Dr Jim dive deep into 👇

📝 Why organizations that only look at talent attraction to solve the DEIB problem in the workplace are basically setting money on fire!!

📝 What we need to be thinking about from a people, process, and technology perspective across our entire candidate lifecycle; and not just the front end.

📝 How to avoid binary solutions, and acknowledge nuance, to understand differing positions to lead to productive, equity-oriented conversations.

📝 How remote models for the workplace democratized the access to meaningful work across continents, and now more organizations pushing the agenda of "return to the office" needs to be looked at with caution.

📝 Why we should stop hiding behind 'safe' and non-threatening sounding words like 'microaggression' and 'unconscious bias' in the workplace - because we are at a time when we should be at a higher level of consciousness.

Want a 30-minute listen that is packed with DEIB action-items you can move the needle on right away? You've found it. You'll need a hot beverage and your notebook for this one ☕️📝

If you like what you hear, please remember to drop us a 5-star rating.

Thank you!

We appreciate you.

EP40 Inclusive practices for every body type with Pamela Shainhouse

Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:00:00 +0000

Welcome back to a fresh season of the ABCDEI podcast. In this season co-hosts Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukerji present a 6-episode arc with in-depth episodes on different aspects of 2 core topics: intersectionality, and the return to workplace culture.

In the first episode of the arc, Susan Diaz sits down with Pamela Shainhouse, Award-winning Certified DEI&B professional to tackle the former.

Pamela is the Founder, President, and Creative Designer of Allistyle Inc., a size-diverse and sustainable fashion line named in memory of her daughter Alli. Allistyle highlighted the need for beautiful, comfortable clothing for curvy women and was designed and manufactured from sustainable fabrics in Canada.

She is a highly accomplished Entrepreneur and Consultant with more than 35 years of success across fashion, apparel, and professional fundraising sectors. Her broad areas of expertise include networking, brand development/management, and public speaking.

Her new division, "The Shainhouse Group, a division of Allistyle Inc." is a consultancy that specializes in the world "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEI&B)" within the corporate culture. Their sweet spot is in the fashion marketplace.

Susan and Pamela dive into:

📝 The need to create greater awareness around physical abilities and size diversity in the post-pandemic workplace

📝 Why labels given to physical and mental abilities by "outsiders" - like "plus size" and "ADHD" - which inherent shame, need to change

📝 Why some larger fashion corporations from Nike to Old Navy, have recently integrated their clothing lines to offer a wider size range instead of grouping any size over 14 into a tab that is titled "Plus"

📝 The importance of becoming aware of independent brands that are doing a remarkable job of creating size diverse options - like Hilary MacMillan, and Lesley Hampton, an Indigenous fashion designer

📝 The easy business case for becoming more inclusive of customers with different physical abilities: "Our dollars work too!" Pamela talks of some of her experiences at big department stores and malls, as an older adult in a mobility device

Listen to the full discussion with Susan and Pamela for more ⏩

If you like this episode, please drop us a 5-star rating. (no need for a detailed review. The platforms only care about the number of stars you leave us 😁)

Much appreciated.

About Pamela

Pamela Shainhouse is a highly accomplished Entrepreneur and Consultant with more than 35 years of success across fashion, apparel, and professional fundraising sectors. Her broad areas of expertise include networking, brand development/management, and public speaking. Her new division, "The Shainhouse Group, a division of Allistyle Inc." is a consultancy that specializes in the world "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEI&B)" within the corporate culture. Our sweet spot is in the fashion marketplace,

In addition to Allistyle Inc., Pamela is the President of a charity, Alli's Journey, founded in Alli's memory to support young adults with cancer.

Pam is currently finishing her first book about her journey with her daughter and how resilience and courage keep her moving ahead.

EP39 Apologies, apathy and how to stay committed to the equity journey

Thu, 04 Aug 2022 12:00:00 +0000

We're back with a two-parter in which Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukherji, our hosts, touch on the state of the world as it relates to equity halfway through 2022. A State of the Union on where people are in the DEI journey as it stands at this moment in history. And while some things have changed, some things really haven't changed at all.

Susan and Rohini dive deep into:

📝 the Pope's apology for the actions of the Catholic Church towards the children of Indigenous peoples in Canada, and what lessons brands can take away from a reputation management and crisis communication perspective.

📝 Roe versus Wade and the need to avoid apathy towards huge problems of humanity that we may feel like we cannot solve at an individual or company level,

Listen to the full discussion with Susan and Rohini for more.

Ps: If you like what we talk about on this podcast, please do us a favor and drop us a 5-star rating. (no need for detailed review. The platforms only care about the number of stars you leave us 😁) Much appreciated.

EP38 Honouring your own intellectual property

Thu, 02 Jun 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Today on ABCDEI we talk about intellectual property and how to honour it, as we build in public about some of our plans for the future for the body of work we've build through this podcast.

But first a story you'll find a story that was first told to us by Andrea Henry of henrybrookslaw.com

Here are some snippets 👇 You'll have to listen to the full story on the episode.

"'Black Girl Magic' (the phrase) is a piece of intellectual property. But intellectual property cannot be claimed and owned by you, unless you have monetized it. So if the person who coined the phrase had even printed one t-shirt, and sold it for $10 to a friend, that would have made the phrase claimable as we understand it. But instead, the trademark or the ownership of that phrase belongs to someone who is not the creator. Why is a crying shame."
-Susan Diaz

"I think we've both acknowledged where we've been part of the solution, as well as where we have been the receiving end of discrimination. The intersection of our identities, but also the intersection of our professional experience, and then our lived experience, specifically within microaggression biases, has certainly given us grounds to have something very real that we want to protect (in ABCDEI)."
-Rohini Mukherji

EP37 How to walk away like a Superhero

Tue, 24 May 2022 13:16:07 +0000

Today on ABCDEI we talk about victim-blaming, victim-shaming and so much more as it relates to the workplace.

Turn your attention to Simu Liu (the actor who plays "Shang Chi" in the Marvel Studios superhero movie) and how he walked away from Deloitte after a bad experience to become an actor and eventually the first Asian superhero in Hollywood.

"He talked about a job termination when he used to work at Deloitte and the impact that it had on him, a decade ago. With the benefit and privilege of certainly the success he's had since then, but also the passage of time, how he's reflected on how that journey took him away from a path or killed a path, let's say, to a life that wasn't for him and gave him the motivation to live the life he actually wants. I think he's well on his way to living that, which I think is really inspirational on a number of planes."
- Rohini Mukherji

"What was happening on the customer relationship front, where it's no longer about the company, the story is about the customer, the customer is king, and all of that. That's what's happening with employees now. When people are talking about 'the great resignation', and why a company needs to treat its talent with respect. And to me, it's not a moment too soon."

- Susan Diaz

EP36 - What does the inclusive 'return to office' look like?

Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:00:00 +0000

ABCDEI is back after a short spring break!

This season, we want to really feed into some of what we've built through great discussions and feedback. And focus on "conversation in progress".

And this year, no conversations have been more active than the ones around the return to the office! People back in offices in some part, and we're starting to see conversations around everything from whether the dress code changed now that we've seen everybody in pyjamas! Ie: Is the suit over?

But more seriously… We spotlight an inclusion perspective on the subject. There is nuance in everything starting from how you invite people back into the office.

Do you make it a choice?
Is it everybody that needs to come in?
Is it the same rules across the board?
What does it mean for people whose lives have changed since the pandemic?

And then, once we are back in the office, how do we make sure that inclusion becomes part of the operations of the workplace, and not something that's an afterthought or a sidebar consideration?

"I think the defining philosophy going forward is how companies are going to react to hybrid work for the long haul. Repeatedly, we're seeing people put out these surveys, and how many times does it have to say 75% of the people would prefer flexible and remote arrangements before organizations will hear that feedback? It is about trusting your people to choose. Which is easier said than done." - Susan Diaz

"There is a little bit of a fear of going first because there's a fear of getting it wrong or alienating or offending. It has to be less about the actions and more about the strategy. So if you think about inclusion or building an equitable workplace as the reasoning that drives your return to office protocol, then it's less about how many times you ask people to come in and more about communicating the purpose - ie: how are we using our in-office time differently." - Rohini Mukherji

Listen to the full discussion with Susan and Rohini for more ⏩

EP35 How marginalized communities can take up more space

Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:50:29 +0000

Today Susan and Rohini are getting personal.

What can we do to TAKE UP MORE SPACE? 💫💫💫

Here we are with the second of a two part-episode (Refer episode 33 if you missed part 1), in which we're talking about how to build the inclusion muscle and what are the things that go into the making of an inclusion habit.

In the first part, we looked at it from the perspective of privileged, or the person who wants to be an ally. And today, we want to look at it from the perspective of the marginalized - whether by race, gender, physical ability, or sexual orientation.

There's two sides to moving forward.
These sides are not equal by FAR.

There is however a role that marginalized communities can play in furthering (not just starting, but furthering) the education of those with privilege.

1. Consider the token opportunity

"I have to say don't reject the token opportunity.Even as little as six months ago I was approached to be a part of a diversity panel. And as part of the activities there was a mother-daughter segment doing a cook-off. And people on that committee wanted me to bake an Indian brownie. And I'm like, No, I don't know what an Indian brownie is. My brownie looks just like your brownie. It probably looks better than your brownie because I know how to bake and suddenly I was just feeling like a mascot. Looking at it from today I think to myself: That's silly! That was me getting triggered by something and I could have totally shown up and made my regular brownie and made a joke about it. Instead, I denied myself a little bit of visibility, and a fun connection with my child." - Susan Diaz

2. Accept help

Being able to accept help, and then maybe even taking it a step further, and learning how to get good at asking for help. Don't see these things in any way as a reflection of your ability. We live in a culture of collaboration; we can easily access the minds and the resources we need so reach out and ask for help.

"It might mean starting to be a little bit more specific with the help you ask for versus just, 'I'm drowning. Help me.' Take those baby steps, do what feels comfortable." - Rohini Mukherji

3. Learn to wear the right amount of armor to 'battle'

"Choosing the size of armor that you need for each battle is important. So if you're going into a situation where you're trying to advocate for yourself, and you need an extra day to do something that has cultural significance, that is a very different proposition than advocating for yourself where you've been systematically discriminated against for three years, and your advancement within a company has been stifled because of your different lived experience. Those are very different battles. And it's important to choose the armor that you go in equipped with to each battle. It is also about your own peace of mind and your own mental health, and sort of choosing and saving your resources for when you need them.

To dive way into those 3 actions we can each take, listen to the episode.

EP34 The profound calling of bridge-building in DEI with Martine Kalaw

Fri, 11 Feb 2022 19:43:04 +0000

"I make a distinction between active allies, and passive allies. We've got a whole lot of great passive allies in organizations that are wanting to do something and thinking 'But I don't know what to do!'

Active allyship can be facilitated through manager and management development. Managers all need management development. If you're listening and you don't have a management development program, that is a huge disservice to your managers right there. We know that managers automatically need to upskill themselves to be more effective. What I'm suggesting is DEI just becomes a way to pivot management development. It's not changing it. That's why it's the ABCs!" - Martine Kalaw, CEO and founder of Martine Kalaw Enterprised and author of 'The ABCs of Diversity'

And might we add???

A kindred spirit, for us, in terms of articulation of DEI philosophy.

(I mean, this podcast IS called ABCDEI 😁)

Martine's firm supports human resources professionals in saving time, reducing burden, and being able to drive return on investment (ROI) when it comes to everything related to DEI in the workplace. They do this via training, consulting, as well as speaking.

Why Martine didn't name her book ABCs of DEI

"My only reservation was six, seven months ago, I wasn't sure how familiar people were with the term DEI. I think now it's more widespread, but we are like we were right. On the same, you know, wavelength!"

Martine's powerful story

"So my background is I am a I am a stateless and undocumented immigrant survivor. I was born and I'm from Zambia and the Democratic Republic, respectively, and have been in the US since I was four years old. By the time I was 15, I became undocumented and I was placed in deportation proceedings for seven years and didn't have a country to return to because I was stateless. In the time that I was navigating these spaces, and navigating and trying to survive in America, on my own, I was exposed to different communities. I went to a predominantly white boarding school. Then I went, as an African child, to a predominantly African-American Middle School. As a result, I feel like I have this privilege, I was given this opportunity to navigate all these different communities in different spaces, and be a bridge builder."

Listen to the full, fascinating discussion with Susan and Rohini on this episode 👇

If you're a return visitor, drop us a 5 star review please?

It encourages and helps us show up to keep doing this podcast regularly.

EP33 Inclusion routines for the privileged

Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:00:00 +0000

We're talking about building muscle today!

Building routine is such a big part of the start of the year for many. And we wanted to bring that lens to inclusion work.

Beyond our day jobs, our podcasting, and families, we - Susan and Rohini - are also both skincare nerds! As we were talking about that, we really found the analogy back to inclusion strong because it is about habit building. It is about changing the way you think about the world, the workplace, and your friends.

Because skincare, folks, goes back to just doing the right three to five things. Rinse and repeat!

Words, tone, and apologies are the new 'cleanse, tone, moisturize', you might say!

As people who sit on both sides of the fence, there are moments where we feel that we have privilege, and others when we've been marginalized in a space, or excluded. We've learned to look at that as a strength in some ways.

So, in this 2-parter, we're breaking down some of the resistances on both sides of the discussion.

In the first part, we speak to the privileged. We offer three very simple things that you can think about as an ally; as a person of privilege.

The first habit or muscle to build is empathy. Just walking in someone else's shoes, putting yourself there, and saying 'if this were me, what would I do?'

The second habit to build is education. A certain level of holding yourself accountable for educating yourself on the spaces around you. It's the homework you have to do to live in today's world.

The third habit is really one to stop. Stop downplaying discomfort or conflict if something has gone wrong. If someone of a marginalized community comes to you and tells you something difficult, know that it was likely very hard for them to do. Treat it with the gravitas it deserves.

If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to hit subscribe, and please drop us a review.

EP32 Change hearts before minds with Victor Rampaderat

Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:42:15 +0000

"Here's something else that I realized which is very rarely brought into this conversation is we talk about white privilege and other privileges. Let's talk about economic privilege. It's really easy to become out of touch when you've started to gain economic privilege. And I know for myself, I've lived on both sides of the proverbial track. I've been poor, I've been wealthy. And at the end of the day, the problems that I face with money are very different than the problems I faced without." - Victor Rampaderat, Founder of Discourse.

Victor's helps organizations build diversity and inclusion within their corporate spaces, as well as their environments and cultures. He's an immigrant from South America as a young boy - whose parents came to Canada "as refugees fleeing a lot of tensions that were happening back home. And when we got here, it was not an easy experience. The 80s were full of racism, there were a lot of derogatory comments towards people of color, there weren't very many opportunities and the opportunities that existed were available mostly in low-wage paying jobs. So it was really tough. There were probably about 10 of us in a two bedroom apartment in Scarborough."

Victor's perspective on the inclusion landscape

"I think we're just getting started. I know that, last year we started to see the rise of the the CDO, or chief diversity officer, which was one of the fastest growing C suite, if not the fastest growing C suite roles. It can't be one person carrying the weight, it really needs to be an entire organization, top to bottom. And that's where the challenge is. Because you have folks that for whatever reason is, this is very personal to them, they're out to lunch, because it doesn't affect them."

"I can certainly fall on the slightly more combative end of things where, when it comes to a discussion, I'm like, 'Well, excuse you' or 'I'm pretty sure you didn't mean to say that!' And I do rely to some extent on my ability to use humor and wit and satire to get me through those discussions. That comes from my my lived experience. We moved around a lot as a family growing-up. I lived in different parts of the world. And then I've chosen to be, in the entrepreneurial space the last decade or so for work. That's meant that there isn't necessarily a boss or a framework or a complaint box that I could go to when issues happen on the daily. So I've learned to protect myself." - Susan Diaz

"Realistically, one of the things that I've always said is that you need to change people's hearts before you can change their minds. The people that want the change, will change. I've changed numerous times in my life. I was a criminal. Before I was 18, I was banned from the entire region I now live in. At the end of the day, I realized at that point, I no longer wanted to be that person. I wanted to be someone else. My parents didn't sacrifice the things they did, to come to this country, for me to end up a failure, either dead or in jail."

"Your own personal journey is so powerfulin the collective as well. You said Okay, this was the status quo, I was living this kind of life, and it fit, and it worked. But that's no longer the person or the company, or the image, or the reputation that we want to have. So let's just reinvent. We don't need to reinvent everything. But who is it that we want to be to our customers, our employees? Just having that moment of self-reflection is a powerful way to start." - Rohini Mukherji

Listen to the full episode and drop us a 5-star review if you're a return visitor. Thank you!

EP31 "I want to own your pain" - with Shari Foos

Fri, 07 Jan 2022 14:00:00 +0000

"It's a profound thing to offer an apology. An apology is not dependent on forgiveness and has no excuses. An apology is me humbly coming to you and saying, "Oh, I see that I've hurt you; that I was inappropriate in some way." And by the way, I may not have intended to hurt you. I may not even agree that it was something for which you should feel hurt. But that's not the concern of the apology. The apology is merely recognizing that you feel hurt based on something I did or said. I want to own own your pain, and apologize for it" - Shari Foos

To kick things off this year, we have with us Shari Foos, Marriage and Family Therapist and founder of The Narrative Method.

Shari's point of view on inclusion was honed while studying Narrative Medicine at Columbia University. The program was conceived as a way to teach empathy to doctors. "There was a huge perspective about social justice, and what does it mean for someone to speak for a patient and you can extrapolate that to what does it mean for anyone to tell someone else's story. And so I have always been a big fan of the group process since I was a teenager, when I was depressed and found myself in group therapy. And what was so powerful that and I see to this day is that as important as one-on-one relationships are, they cannot simulate a good family the way a group can. And when everyone is nodding, because they understand what you're saying, you feel normal, you feel good, you feel you belong. So that's why I decided to take all of the work I had done, and create a group process where people could have meaningful conversations, without small talk, based on inspirational art, or videos or music or something that evokes a prompt, and then they'll go into smaller groups and discuss those prompts. Or in the case of writing groups, they write about them." - Shari Foos

Here's some of what Susan and Rohini discuss with Shari

"We're natural storytellers, based on the professional lines that we have chosen (as marketers and PR leaders), but our 'why' came from a personal and painful experience and the urge to make sure that doesn't happen to somebody else, or the urge, perhaps for somebody else to learn from the hard soul searching work that we had done"

- Rohini Mukherji 3:53

"What Shari said about that "squeaky wheel" kid usually being the creative kid stood out for me. I have a 10 year old daughter and she's definitely curious and challenging. She's very, very creative. I say often, well you're lucky, you're in the right place to be that squeaky wheel. I'm listening closely because I want to encourage that creativity. Because for me, the environment was much more "Don't ask too many questions. Be seen and not heard." The person who's telling a story is being brave. How do we make make them more comfortable?"

-Susan Diaz 8:03

For that and more on empathy, apologies, creating safe spaces. Listen to the episode!

If you're a return visitor, drop us a 5-star rating? Please.

EP30 Equitably ever after

Sat, 20 Nov 2021 14:26:25 +0000

In this episode, Susan and Rohini focus on taking the theory of many of the inclusion lessons discussed with experts in the space over 3 seasons into practical reframes of incidents that routinely occur in the workplace.

Both co-hosts share an incident from their professional lives and get vulnerable. From it, they hope to reinforce that 'it happens to all of us'. They share learnings these experiences, ways in which you can advocate for yourself if you find yourself in a similar situation.

If you've heard our podcast, and like what you hear, please drop us a 5 star rating

EP29 I is for Immigrant

Fri, 12 Nov 2021 23:33:35 +0000

The inclusion conversation is not a new conversation.
It's a conversation that can get frustrating.

Through 2021 there's been a sense of urgency from communities outside racialized communities, for example. And that can bring with it tiredness for those who've been battling inequalities. We must recognize that fatigue.

In this curated episode, Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukherji have conversations with Gail Strachan – culture strategist, co-Founder and co-chair of the first-ever Antiracism in PR summit; as well as Stacy Lee Kong, journalist and editor of 'Friday Things'.

Gail's journey began as curiosity about Black history in high school and became confusion, hurt and anger. As a social justice advocate, Gail states that skirting around the topic of race is stifling our progress towards inclusion and equity. We discuss the foundation of disproportionate power structures holding BIPOC, and break down the meritocracy myth once and for all.

In our chat with Stacey, she shares, how as a racialized woman in journalism, she has turned some of the fatigue around race-related conversations into pop culture reporting with a cerebral twist. She delves deep into the stories beneath some the biggest celebrity scandals, with takeaways that are accessible to most.

If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to hit subscribe, and please drop us a review.

EP28 P is for performative

Fri, 05 Nov 2021 15:56:13 +0000

What is 'performative'?

Is all marketing/communications automatically performative if you're setting out to announce what you're doing to people?

No, it doesn't have to be. Not when it's backed up by the right action.

In this curated episode of conversations with 3 BIPOC leaders, we break down some of the realities we all need to come to grips with as individuals, and the actions we can take to move the needle forward to change.

First, we speak to Ben Borne, Indigenous marketing leader, and founder of Symmetry PR.

We talk about how Canadians can centre Indigenous voices especially when something horrific like the residential school system becomes fully understood by mainstream society. Ben talks about how it all begins with vulnerability - what he's appreciated more than anything else, is 'witnessing the vulnerability of people who are willing to go there'.

At the root of it is the question 'how are we going to advance our interpersonal relationships, to learn and to be better?'

Next we talk to Darian Kovacs, Indigeneous marketing leader, host of "Marketing News Canada" and founder of Jelly Marketing.

We discuss how it's never too late for brands to come to the table. Darian encourages brands to overcome fear and or paralysis by analysis, which stops people from doing something to support change.

And we round the episode out with our chat with Leo Nupolu Johnson, DEI advisor to non-profits, educator, and founder of Empowerment Squared.

We talk about the context of charitable partnerships and the need for organizations to start asking themselves if they are in a position of power to be advocates for the communities that the funders want to help.

If you're a leader in an organization, think about two things with everything you do, whether it's a policy update, a change to your hiring form, or hiring of somebody who oversees diversity:

Is your action intended to build trust?
Is it actually building trust? (Do people now have more trust? Do people have more knowledge?)

If you're doing that, that's your gauge to know that it's not performative. If people are feeling safer, more comfortable, more supported, then you do you!

For those battling with the boundaries of coming off as performative, if you are looking for a short primer, with real actions you can take, from leaders, find 25 minutes to listen to this episode.

Hear our podcast, and enjoy it? may we ask you to drop us a 5-star rating? Please, and thank you.

EP27 C is for code-switching

Fri, 29 Oct 2021 20:36:13 +0000

In this curated episode we bring together 2 discussions. The first with Romesh Hettiarachchi, a commercial lawyer, and the second between Susan and Rohini on the microaggressions that compound and lead to many marginalized individuals' submissive reactions in the face of bias.

Romesh tells the story of when he was setting up his firm. He had a number of different directions to consider. The first was to name it after himself, and why he chose not to go that route. He details some of the non-financial factors of decision-making like comfort, fit, perhaps quite key, the ability to pronounce the name of the other person. He chose not to name the firm after himself and instead went with B&I - Business and Innovation. He also details the distinction between the legal name of an entity and a brand name in which you engage with clients. And why he often recommends a blended approach.

We talk about the cost of participation in the inclusion space is perceived as high. "What if I get that wrong? I would feel called out." Even from something as simple as a name.

Then we move on over to the impact of microaggressions based on cliched biases, and learning the resilience it takes from marginalized folx to navigate that.

Many folx face bias on a daily basis. In the form of microaggressions. We've heard it described really well by a guest who was on The 4am Report podcast - Colin Druhan. He referred to microaggressions as paper cuts. So if someone has asked you to call them 'they' and you call them 'she' repeatedly there is a cumulative effect.

Susan talks of how she often asked for Indian recipes, particularly Chicken Tikka recipes. How she has cerebrally tried to work it out for herself saying," Well of course they ask you that because you're a good cook. You talk about food often. You used to be a food blogger. And you shouldn't be offended by that." But the fact remains if a relationship with her is purely reliant on someone asking her those cliched questions and they don't even know her well enough to know that she's vegetarian, then she doesn't have to answer them.

Listen up to this very example-filled episode that will make you take a deeper look at the things you say and how you say them.

And if you enjoy this podcast, please consider hitting the 5 star button to give us a rating. Thank you.

EP 26 Grace, empathy, and asking for change with Darian Kovacs

Fri, 22 Oct 2021 14:00:00 +0000

How do we open up doors and break down barriers for Indigenous peoples to get work?

To get mentorship?

And to be leaders in that sector?

Darian Kovacs asks "what if we equipped Indigenous folx with the best education, the best resources, the best credentials, and let them loose into the world of marketing and advertising? And what if they happen to rise up as the leaders? Because they're incredibly brilliant people that are resilient, understanding, and empathetic of stories and storytelling because of the way they are brought up in their history.

Darian Kovacs, seasoned podcast host of Marketing News Canada and founder of Jelly Marketing joins Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukherji.

We tackle the phenomenon of the new found anxiety of someone who want to be an ally who is moving from a place of privilege to just becoming aware of the real state of things I- whether it was the George Floyd murder of last year or the unearthing of over 1000 children's graves, covered up in the Canadian residential school system.

We touch on

How to operationalize empathy
How to get past the fear of doing the wrong things and paralysis by analysis that stops people from doing anything to help
Some of the really practical pieces marketers struggle with - Darian talks of a tool like Canva which many digital marketers within amazing organizations use. If you look up the stock images and try to find Indigenous people you'll find very generalized/racialized images. When we come up against that, he suggests that we reach out to the platforms and get dialogue started on how it can change. (spoiler: they'll likely be open to it as Darian discovered)

This episode is super fun; complete with Grey's Anatomy and Suits analogies and even examples of power sightings of Canadian political nerve centers (hint: Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and his wife Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau were in Tofino, BC in early October 2021, catching a lot of bad press on the bad taste of taking a 'luxury vacation in this time'. Darian channels some primo empathy in his approach to that narrative)

About Darian

Darian Kovacs is the Indigenous founder of Vancouver based SEO company Jelly Digital Marketing & PR and digital marketing course, Jelly Academy. He brings 15 years of marketing experience and a passion for education, and creativity. He is the host of the podcast Marketing News Canada. Darian specializes in mixing PR with digital marketing and has worked with numerous internationally renowned brands on developing and executing their digital marketing and PR strategies. Darian lives in Fort Langley, BC with his wife and four children and likes to mountain bike, watercolour and read in his free time.

EP25 How to be a true ally

Fri, 15 Oct 2021 14:00:00 +0000

Most people want to identify as an 'ally'. Nobody wants to be the bad guy. Being an ally to someone who has been systematically marginalized and diminished isn't easy.

In this short primer episode we cover:

The NOs

Allyship is not a self-bestowed title. Don't call yourself an ally!
Allyship is not a box to check on our way to collecting a certain number of 'woke' points.
Allyship is not something that you earn once and keep for life. You need to keep at it, with continuous improvement.
Allyship is not one-size-fits-all.
Allyship is not a badge. There's no Twitter verified check next to it. You do it anyway. Over the next two weeks, we'll cover

The mindset: 2 key practices for shifting to inclusion by default

The discipline of challenging the status quo
Exercising the inclusion muscle everywhere so you're conscious of who might be left out at any point.

The action: 3 tangible things you can do to be a true, non-performative ally.

Drop the defense. Respect someone's courage when they share their truth.
Don't be a sheep. You have a voice and it counts.
Don't make it about you. When someone needs help, turn the focus on them.

If you've just found us, give us a rating (just hit the star of your choice, no review needed even). Please and thank you. It helps us keep showing up and doing more to further inclusion education by finding the experts and voices that teach and guide.

EP24 A is for Ageism

Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:00:00 +0000

In Episode 24, we mull: is age just a number? There are so many preconceived notions around the connection between capability and age. Unlike race, gender, or other forms of identity, age is a universal truth. We're all going to be in our teens, our 20s and our 70s. So, age is a good place to start checking our biases.

Inclusion involves stepping away from the boomers, Gen X and millennial stereotypes and beginning to see people more fully.

Our two spotlight guests represent two different generations. The first was episode 16's Jacqui D'Eon, owner of Jade communications, PR school instructor and the author of Stuff Happens. Jacqui can credibly speak from both ends of that discussion, from her lived experience as an older adult, as well as experience from being an educator and teaching young people.

In episode 13, Susan's own daughter, Yara, with her wise-beyond-her-years take on whether passing down traditions blindly could stunt the next generation's ability to be their whole selves.

So have a listen to this curation, on the universal truth of aging.

EP23 M is for Monolith - the need to better representation in the media

Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:21:23 +0000

Let's focus on going beneath the surface on the inclusion front, shall we? No matter what the marginalization or points of difference might be, how do you take a step back? Being especially careful in the media to NOT treat any group as a monolith, or stereotype. How can we push ourselves to really focus on distinct and powerful lived experiences, even if the people in question look similar.

In this episode, we've curated a few conversations with prominent media voices.

First, Mohit Rajhans, an early media personality on the Toronto morning television scene, doing great work for representation in the media.

We also spoke with Ali Kazmi, star of the Oscar-nominated film 'Funny Boy', who talked to us about his experiences with typecasting, tokenism, and intentions misunderstood in the film world.

And finally, Stacey Lee Kong, creator of one of our favorite newsletters, (and one of the best in the country, we'd argue) "Friday Things".

3 amazing communicators and artists who dug into the concept of superficiality at various levels and the need to build foundations, not just facades.

EP22 Digging Deeper: Correcting Radical Wrongs in Canada

Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:28:53 +0000

In episode 22, we continued digging deeper into some topics from season 1 and 2. There's something decidedly different about next week's federal election: it's the first time we're going in with our eyes wide open. To the existence of racism and discriminatory systems, to the ugly history of this country's residential schools and to the need for leadership that is going to bring real change.

A throwback to episode 14 touches on the anti-Islamic hate that resulted in a heinous act of terror in London ON and still persists.

And in episode 15, Ben Borne really opened our eyes to the realities and barriers that Indigenous Canadians face to this day – and the systems that need to be rebuilt.

This episode will give you chills. Tune in and take notes.

#21 - Digging Deeper: A is for Anti-Black Racism

Fri, 10 Sep 2021 15:14:18 +0000

We're kicking off season 3 with a deeper look at some of the topics we explored in Seasons 1 and 2. Thanks to the incredible expertise of the guests we've spoken to, we have a rich collection of actionable learnings that you can take away – and do – right now.

In Episode 21, we dig into Leo Johnson's take on balancing the interests of those with funds and those with needs (Ep 7), Sherhara Downing's perspective on the say-do gap when it comes to inclusion (Ep 12) and Gail Strachan's assessment of the meritocracy myth (Ep 5).

So, if you're looking to be a hands-on contributor to ending anti-Black racism, you're going to want to tune in.

#20 - Allyship Manual: Embrace courageous action

Fri, 06 Aug 2021 14:05:55 +0000

In the final episode of our mini-series on allyship, this week we cover three tangible things you can do to be a true, non-performative ally. In this 3-episode allyship manual arc, we've covered what allyship is not and two key practices for shifting to inclusion by default.

In the season 2 finale, we take inspiration from a popular pandemic pastime - baking - to illustrate three definitive actions that will help make you a better ally:

Drop the defence. Respect someone's courage when they share their truth.
Don't be a sheep. You have a voice and it counts.
Don't make it about you. When someone needs help, turn the focus on them.

If you've just found us, please give us a rating (just hit the star of your choice, no review needed even). In the spirit of self-care, we will be taking a short break before we kick off season 3 on Friday, September 3. Until then, be good to each other and yourselves!

#19 - Allyship manual: The two mindset shifts critical to genuine allyship

Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:53:55 +0000

In the second of a 3-episode arc on allyship, this week we cover the two key practices for shifting to inclusion by default. In the final episode of this arc, we will break down a few tactical things everyone can do toward being a true ally, but this week it's all about the mindset shift that has to come first.

1) The discipline of challenging the status quo
2) Exercising the inclusion muscle everywhere so you're conscious of who might be left out at any point.

We hope you will tune into this episode and stay with us for the conclusion of this episode arc next week. Thanks for listening to us loyally for almost two full seasons!

#18 - Allyship Manual: What allyship is NOT

Fri, 23 Jul 2021 17:33:20 +0000

In the first of a 3 episode arc on allyship, this week we cover the five things that allyship is NOT:

Allyship is not a self bestowed title. Don't call yourself an ally!
Allyship is not a box to check on our way to collecting a certain number of 'woke' points.
Allyship is not something that you earn once and keep for life. You need to keep at it, with continuous improvement.
Allyship is not one-size-fits-all.
Allyship is not a badge. There's no Twitter verified check next to it. You do it anyway.

Over the the next two weeks, we'll cover

The key practices for shifting to inclusion by default
The need to embrace courage and forget ego (and how a baking analogy might help)

If you've just found us, give us a rating (just hit the star of your choice, no review needed even). Please and thank you.

#17 - Identity, inviting feedback and influencing through persuasion with Romesh Hettiarachchi

Fri, 16 Jul 2021 13:36:16 +0000

Romesh Hettiarachchi, commercial lawyer at B&I Legal Counsel, has a wonderful way of breaking down identity into a conversation between the individual and community. And so, the formation of an authentic identity does require being open to and even inviting input from a diverse set of external advisors. In sharing his decision to exclude his last name from the name of his firm, Romesh shares some really important insights that leaders would be wise to honestly consider when building an inclusive business. If you've ever wondered, "what's in a name?" then you definitely should tune into this episode.

#16 - Ageism, assumptions and asking with kindness with Jacqui D'Eon

Fri, 09 Jul 2021 00:41:00 +0000

Jacqui D'Eon, founder and owner of Jade Communications, and the author of stuff happens, joins us for an honest conversation around ageism in the workplace. As an educator and a professional with over three decades of experience, Jacqui sees both ends of the age spectrum everyday. Jacqui's message is clear: move past the assumptions already. We all stand to gain a lot from multi-generational workplaces. The opportunities for two-way learning, more diverse and well-informed perspectives, and of course, true inclusion far outweighs any bumps and awkwardness along the journey. If you're in a workplace that has representation across multiple generations, you are going to want to tune in.

#15 - Colonialism, co-creation and courageous action with Ben Borne

Fri, 18 Jun 2021 14:47:40 +0000

In light of the horrific recent discovery of the remains of 215 Indigenous children in unmarked graves in Kamloops, we wanted to focus our learning on the Indigenous experience. We were joined by Ben Borne, a descendant of yellow quill First Nation and co-founder of Symmetry PR. Ben shared how he came to understand his Indigenous identity and his own privilege while discovering first-hand the realities and barriers that indigenous people face in Canada. His message to well-intentioned leaders is clear: don't just say sorry, find a way to rebuild systems. Take it a step further and invite those in the margins to co-create new frameworks with you.

#14 - Radical ignorance - not radical Islam – is a serious problem

Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:20:54 +0000

Rant alert. The past few weeks have brought so much pain to different marginalized groups in Canada. In today's episode, Rohini and Susan share their anguish at the hate-fueled killing of a multigenerational Pakistani family out for a walk in London, ON. They reflect on their time spent living in the Middle East and the warmth and acceptance of the Muslim people that made Oman and the UAE feel like home. Finally, they share some advice for leaders about how to create real change to address and end Islamophobia once and for all.

#13 - Playgrounds to power structures: Lessons in DEI from Gen Z

Fri, 04 Jun 2021 15:30:41 +0000

Episode 13 was incredibly special, because it featured one of our own. Susan's not-so-little-anymore kid, Yara, joined us for an enlightening discussion on leading with empathy, the importance of education and meeting in the middle. What really stayed with us was this: lessons from the playground translate surprisingly well into breaking down traditional workplace power structures. Yara's precociousness reinforced the origin story of ABCDEI – specifically the focus on learning/unlearning like a child. If Yara represents the voice of the next generation, we are going to be just fine, people.

#12 - The new language of racism with Sherhara Downing

Fri, 28 May 2021 13:34:17 +0000

In episode 12, we were lucky enough to chat with Sherhara Downing, the livewire founder of Level Comm. She helps business leaders speak confidently and concisely to build their personal brand. Sherhara shared several personal experiences that have informed her commitment to anti-racism training. Her generosity in sharing gave us serious unlearning fodder during the conversation and thereafter.

We focused on some of the barriers to doing the work to dismantle systemic racism, with ways to overcome the 3 Is of inaction: indifference, ignorance and intention. Tune into our most high-energy episode yet!

#11 - Policies and not prayers with the Milkshake Sisters

Thu, 20 May 2021 20:14:29 +0000

And just like that, we're kicking off Season 2 of ABCDEI!

In episode 1, Susan and Rohini are joined in studio by another dynamic duo – the Milkshake Sisters. Marianna and Angel are activists and educators with a focus on trans rights, with an intersectional lens given their immigrant roots. This episode tackles some tricky unlearning territory: for marginalized folx, it's resisting the urge to "exhale anger" and for cis-normative/white folx, it's the need to self-educate and to stop approaching any marginalized group as a monolith.

The powerhouse duo leaves us with a serious call to action: change policies, don't send prayers. Make sure to take notes as you tune into this supercharged lesson on equity.

#10 - Season 1 wrap: Unlearning out loud

Fri, 07 May 2021 15:33:06 +0000

As we come to the end of Season 1 of ABCDEI, co-hosts Susan and Rohini reflect on the lessons they have taken away from the last 10 weeks. The origin story of ABCDEI lies in the deep discomfort of staying silent in the face of inequity and the desire to unlearn out loud through conversations with people with different lived experience. The pair's reflections touch on topics including self-worth, sponsorship, supportive networks and silence as a privilege in and of itself. Tune in for an actionable look back at some of the powerful and inspirational conversations from season 1.

#9 - Build inclusion into your foundation, not the façade with Mohit Rajhans

Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:56:25 +0000

This week, we chatted with Mohit Rajhans, one of the first South Asians working in mainstream media in Toronto. His curiosity about the lack of diversity in media when he was coming up in his career led him down a path that included Bollywood coverage, red carpet reporting and ultimately, morning news. But living in this duality between diaspora and mainstream media gave Mohit a first-hand view of the blind spots in the industry and Canada as a whole. Mohit shares insightful advice on how leaders need to understand the deep value of true representation, so they are building inclusive foundations and not resorting to tokenism and fake facades.

#8 - Modelling true allyship with Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam

Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:56:50 +0000

This week, we unlearned all the advice about steering clear of politics and religion. Our guest, Toronto City Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam, is modelling true allyship in the way she advocates for her constituents' diverse needs. In this humbling conversation, Councillor Wong-Tam talks about the need for more smart, progressive women, especially those who are racialized and differently abled in the government. She shares her own inspiring journey into political office and how running for office is the most physically and spiritually challenging experience she has been through. It's a version of government we don't see often – the singular human experience. If we have more leaders like her in this city, we are in good hands. Lots to unpack in this incredible episode.

#7 - Fight with one hand, build with the other, a conversation with Leo Johnson

Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:03:45 +0000

This week, we are joined by Leo Nupolu Johnson – internationally acclaimed human rights activist, social entrepreneur, and Executive Director of global charitable organization Empowerment Squared. In this awe-inspiring and humbling conversation, Leo covers serious ground on the incredible power of lived experience and the need for marginalized communities to fight injustice with one hand and build systems with the other. Leo urges corporate leaders to put a deservedly high value on the knowledge and participation of the BIPOC community around matters related to creating equity. This episode will give you chills and leave you inspired.

#6 - A tale of two Meghans with Stacy Lee Kong

Fri, 09 Apr 2021 13:00:00 +0000

Stacy Lee Kong – writer, editor and creator of one of our favourite newsletters, Friday Things - joins us for a serious conversation layered under a really fun conversation. As a racialized woman in journalism, Stacy shares how she has turned some of the fatigue around race-related conversations into pop culture reporting with a cerebral twist. She delves deep into the stories beneath the latest celebrity scandals, with takeaways that are accessible to most. In this episode, she gives us the goods on two very different Meghans: Markle and McCain. Great takeaways on representation, lived experience and seizing the narrative.

#5 - Power structures, immigrant inclusion and the meritocracy myth

Fri, 02 Apr 2021 03:10:29 +0000

In episode 5 of ABCDEI, Gail Strachan – culture strategist, co-Founder and co-chair of the first-ever Antiracism in PR summit and all-around inspiring advocate - is in the studio! Gail's journey of wokeness began as curiosity about Black history in high school and became confusion, hurt and anger. As a social justice advocate, Gail states that skirting around the topic of race is stifling our progress towards inclusion and equity. The trio discuss the foundation of disproportionate power structures holding BIPOC and break down the meritocracy myth once and for all.

#4 - Typecasting, tokenism, collective vision and cancel culture with Ali Kazmi

Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:00:00 +0000

Celebrity alert! In episode 4 of ABCDEI, actor-director Ali Kazmi joins Susan and Rohini to chat about the challenge of tackling the intersectionality of homosexuality and South Asian culture in Funny Boy, Canada's Oscar entry this year. He also shares his candid views on typecasting in the entertainment business, the importance of allyship within marginalized communities and the need for more fulsome roles for BIPOC talent. The trio also talked about what Kim's Convenience did in terms of representation of Korean, Canadian and immigrant identities.

About Ali

Ali is a trained multilingual, multifaceted and experienced, professional creative powerhouse of an Actor/Director & Producer. He was born in Karachi, Pakistan and he now lives in Toronto, Canada where he went to Film School and Drama school and started his career again from scratch. Hailing from a family of Creative juggernauts, he has been working successfully both on and off camera, in the industry in Pakistan, India, Canada & USA for 17 years in the creative fields of theater, television & film. Working on projects from conception to completion is his strong suit. Ali has a penchant for languages and can speak English, Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi, Persian, Pashto/Dari, French(basic) and Arabic.

Instagram: @thealikazmi
Twitter: @thealikazmi
Facebook: Ali Kazmi

#3 - Recollections may vary

Sat, 13 Mar 2021 13:49:26 +0000

In the last episode of the launch-time binge, Susan and Rohini tackle another topic that has a lot of baggage, especially in the South Asian community. And that is mental health. Susan shares her journey to getting comfortable with the subject. The last year has taught us many things, but a deeper appreciation for mental health is the silver lining we're choosing to focus on.

The hosts also share their take on the #MeghanandHarryonOprah interview with some learnings that anyone – manager, entrepreneur or political leader – can apply in their own lives.

#2 - The good fight

Sat, 13 Mar 2021 13:46:15 +0000

In this episode, Susan and Rohini get real about an important and uncomfortable topic: conflict. Is conflict always bad? No. Is it inevitable in the process of creating systemic change? Yes.

Getting comfortable with confrontation can come more naturally when you're taking on someone else's cause, but advocating for yourself can be hard. But fight the good fight we must, if equity is the ultimate goal. In this episode, Susan and Rohini talk about the three types of racism and what we can – all – do better when confronted with them.

#1 - Same, same but different

Sat, 13 Mar 2021 01:58:16 +0000

ABCDEI co-hosts Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukherji have a lot in common – South Asian women who came to Toronto via Oman and work in marketing – OK, yes, that's a lot of common ground, we hear it. But they also have distinct aspects of their identities, especially when it comes to being Canadian immigrants and their differing views on entrepreneurship.

In this episode, get to know what makes their journeys so different and what drives them to ask deep questions, be true to themselves and always lead with empathy on this journey of unlearning.