Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show today. Okay, so today, I’m gonna do a show,, I’m gonna say, I’m gonna say it like, like this. Today, I’m gonna do a show that I don’t wanna do. I know. It’s not that I don’t wanna do it, it’s that I know it’s tricky, and sometimes it’s hard to do a show on something that’s tricky because things in life are so nuanced.

So we can move forward together and do this show with the understanding that things are nuanced. This might or might not apply to you in your situation. You’re allowed to disagree with me. I’m not the overarching truth of all, of all truths. I’m offering some thoughts and some new perspectives here. So what I wanna talk about is about when you stay in a marriage for the kids, and I get messages, I get a lot of messages about this.

And there is this version of one message that I get sort of over and over again, like a couple times, I was gonna say a couple times a week, but sometimes it’s a couple times a day, you know, who, from people on Instagram or, or, you know, people who found the podcast and then they go to Instagram. And they’re, they’re very careful in how they write these messages to me, and I can see,, I can feel all the pain behind it.

And what they say is either, like, “I’m ready to go. I, I want to leave my marriage,” or, “I just decided to leave, and now we have to tell the kids,” or, “We told the kids, and it isn’t really what I wanted. It’s not how I wanted things to go. You know, even though I know in my heart of hearts this is the right choice for me, it’s really painful because I don’t know if it’s the right choice for my kids.”

And that’s the one that I hear all the time. And, you know, before I go any further, I wanna pause. I wanna pause for just a moment because I’m, I’m coming in here, m- you know, as a, as a trained master coach. I’m coming in here as a podcast host that’s had a podcast for 10 years. I’m coming in here as a woman who actually left a marriage with a four-year-old.

So I have done this also, and I know that it’s not easy. I could tell you a, a lot of success stories. I could tell you my own success story. My son’s dad is truly one of my closest friends. It’s not that I talk to him all the time. He’s remarried and has kids that are young teenagers now, but, but when we talk, I know he’s known me, like, the longest of almost anyone I know.

He’s known me since I was in my 20s, and so… And he’s the father to my kid. And so, you know, years ago, he was on the podcast, and we, we removed a lot of podcasts that were interviews from early on. We did, like, a lot of interviews, , business people or o- other things that weren’t really relevant, and a lot of those people didn’t even have their businesses anymore, so it just wasn’t relevant.

But I did a podcast with him, and I should bring that one back as, like, a special event. He’d probably come on today and talk, but I- I will do that. Th- you’ll see a podcast that will pop up that won’t be at the regular time, and we’ll just put that one in between because I think sometimes when we have evidence that things don’t have to go sideways, even if they start sideways, they don’t have to end sideways, that things can get better and be better.

So, but I wanna get back to these messages that I get, right? So, you know, the last part is always like, even though I know, like in my heart of hearts I know this is the thing, I, I feel terrible about it. And so- You know, in those messages, I hear, like, two things sort of that are sitting right next to each other.

One is, she knows, and she feels sick about it, and both of those can be true at the same time. They don’t cancel each other out. And, and, and here’s another thing that I wanna say before anything else. I had a lot of… This episode comes to you with a lot of disclaimers. But the other thing that I wanna say is, is guilt is not evidence.

Guilt is not a signal that you made the wrong decision. Guilt very often shows up when a woman does something for herself after a prolonged time period of not doing that. So your body does not know the difference between wrong and unfamiliar. It just knows that this is not what we usually do here. So

we’re gonna have this talk today about the kids, and I wanna be really careful about how I do it. And so I’m not gonna be telling you what to do. Like, I don’t know your marriage. I’ve never met your husband. I have never sat at your kitchen table on a Saturday night and watched what happens, you know, when he comes in in the afternoon.

And, , a- and I’m not here to hand you any kind of verdict. And so if you have been listening to me for any length of time, you know that that is not the work. The work is that you decide. Not me, and not your sister, not your therapist, and you know that. You know that. But what I’m doing today is a little different, and so I want you to just know what you’re getting.

I think that a lot of you are running one calculation in your head, and you’ve been running it for a long, long time, and it hurts every time you run it, and you keep running it anyway because you think that is the only calculation that there is So here’s an idea that I use with my clients a lot. I- in this, like, picture, okay?

So you are down in the brush, right? You’re lost, okay? You’re lost in it, and you are sure that there is one pathway out, and you have been hacking at that one path so long that your hands hurt. And I’m upstairs, I’m in a helicopter, right? I cannot tell you where to go. I genuinely cannot see your life from up there the way that you can see it from down there.

But I can see that there’s more than one path, and that is all I’m doing today, is offering you a couple of other paths, not because your thinking is wrong, but because the way that you’re thinking about it right now does not feel good to you. You’ve told me that in a million messages. I’ve gotten a million messages, and you’ve all said that.

And you tell me that in every message, and I believe you. And so Here is the sentence that I hear the most, is people say things like, “We stayed,” or, “I stayed because of the kids.” And I want to ask you something that I think people forget about, and that is what are they staying in? What are they staying in?

Because when we say we stayed for the kids, what that usually means is that we kept the house intact. We kept the location the same. We kept the Christmas card looking like the Christmas card, right? But your kids are not living in an address. They are living in a home with two people in it. The kids are the best readers of a room on the entire planet that I have ever met in my life

They have to be, ’cause it’s a survival skill. They cannot leave. They cannot pay rent. They cannot drive. And so they get extremely good at reading what’s happening inside that house. And you know this. You know the way your house is when it’s fine, and you know the way it is when it’s not fine. And you know that your kid can tell from the way that you walk in and throw your keys on the counter.

So think about what happens to your voice when his car pulls in the driveway. Like, does it change? Does it go up a half a step? Do you get careful? Do you sigh a lot? Do you scramble around and start picking stuff up? Do you jump off the couch if you were sitting down? Because they hear that. They’ve always heard that.

They don’t have a word for it. You could ask them about it, and they wouldn’t be able to identify it, but they have years and years of data. And so here’s what I think is the actual thing, is your kids are not learning about divorce from you. They are learning about marriage every single day. You are the template.

That is the model in the house, and that is the only one that they have gotten to see up close, likely. They have gotten to see what a woman is allowed to want, whether a woman gets to be tired, whether she gets to be loud or quiet. They get to see what you do when you’re unhappy for a decade, which is apparently nothing.

You just get really quiet, according to the messages. And that is their curriculum, you know? Whether you label it that way or not, that’s what they are learning. So the question is, if your daughter came to you when she was 45 years old and described your exact marriage to you, sentence for sentence, right? N- n- just exactly what you are living, and asked you what she should do, what would you say to her?

This is not me giving you an answer. This is just a question that I think a lot of us need to ask ourselves. If she came to you, what would you say to her? Right off the top of your head, what would it be? Okay, so now there’s another side of this, and this is something that I also hear a lot, and I wanna say it also very clear, ’cause I think when we hear it out loud, something shifts, right?

And here is the fear, and this is a real fear, so it’s not something silly. I’m not making fun of this, okay? But this is what I hear. “If I stay, if I stay, then I’m in the house, then I can see if something negative is happening. I can smooth it over. I can get in front of it. If we split up, then he has them every other weekend, and I’m not h- I’m not here.

I can’t fix it. I don’t know what he’s gonna say to them. I don’t know if he’s gonna lose his temper. I don’t know if he’s gonna be sharp with them, if they’re gonna cry. There’s gonna be nobody to take care of them. I do not know what kind of mood he is gonna be in, and I will not be in the room.” Fair.

It’s valid. So I wanna walk that f- you know, I wanna walk through that with you What you just told me, and this is something I hear all the time, okay? So what you just told me is that time alone with him is the thing that you’re worried about. That’s the risk that I hear named all the time, and the solution to that risk is to have them around him 100% of the time instead of 50%.

I wanna say that again. Your solution to that is to have him be around that person 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time. So, like, the math right off doesn’t work, but I know what you’re saying in your head, so just bear with me here. The math doesn’t work, so if exposure is the problem, more exposure isn’t the fix.

Now, there is this version of what I just said that is wrong, and I’m gonna talk about that. If what you are describing is danger, like actual danger, like if you are staying because you believe your kids are physically unsafe with him or because you have seen him do something that scares you, that is not a, a mindset conversation, and I am not the person for it.

That is documentation. That is a lawyer. That is a custody arrangement built by somebody who does that work, and there are people who do that and are really good at it. So don’t let anybody, including me, talk you out of a real safety concern. But if your gut is telling you something different, then that’s what I wanna talk about.

I wanna talk about today is way more common, and it’s the one where he’s not dangerous. He’s just not good at it. Mm-hmm. He’s just not good at showing up for his kids. Like, he’s checked out, or he’s short with them, or he’s on his phone, or he gets on video games or whatever, or he just goes cold for days, and nobody really understands why.

And that’s the one where that math actually matters. Because I don’t think that, that the fear is that he is bad. I think your fear is that you are the translator, and you’ve been standing in the middle for years. You’re able to, you know, soften things that he says at dinner. You explain him to them in the car when you’re on your way to practice.

“He’s just tired, honey. He just has had a long week.” You watch his face, and you get ahead of it, and you d- redirect the conversation before it can get bad. So you are essentially, like, the shock absorber in the house. And honestly, of course you’re tired. You’re tired. That’s an impossible job to have, and, and, and I promise nobody has ever said, “Thank you for doing that.”

‘Cause that’s a job that is, like, an invisible job, right? It’s an ultra important and very invisible. Because if it was visible, you’d have to acknowledge that something was going wrong. And so when you imagine not being in the room, you’re not imagining him hurting them, you’re imagining them getting the unbuffed or unbuffered version of him, the one that you have been standing in the middle of and translating for years and years.

And that’s, you know, that- that’s love, you know? I wanna say that. That impulse to do that is love. And, and I want to show you that the cost of it is still real. So two things happen when you are the translator. One is that they never learn how to read him without you. They never get to have their own relationship with their own dad, with his actual, like, being-ness, his actual temperature, right?

They never get to form their own opinion about it. You’ve been handling that for them. And the second one is, and this is the one I really want you to hear, is that they are watching you do that job, and they are learning that this is what a woman does. She manages a man’s weather, temperature. She stays alert.

She stays small so that the room stays calm. Your daughter is taking notes on that. Your son is taking notes on that in a different way. And what he is learning is that somebody will always do that for him. You call it protecting the kids, and I wanna offer you that it might also be managing his emotions, and those are not the same thing

Okay, so I wanna talk a little bit about the language that I’ve heard people use for this, and I mentioned it a little bit before. But I think that the words actually do a lot of damage. Now, you know I’m, I’m a lover, I’m a lover of words. I’m constantly looking in the dictionary for definitions of stuff, but this is what I hear people say.

I hear them say, “I, I don’t wanna blow up the family. I don’t wanna break up the family, or destroy the family. I don’t wanna ruin their childhoods.”, What else have I heard? Oh, shatter is a word. I, like, “I don’t wanna shatter this for them.” And the words people use to describe this, and I get it, I get it, but those are, like, explosion words.

Like, those are words for, like, a bomb going off in a building, and maybe even as I say that, you’re like, “Well, it is like a bomb, a bomb going off in the building, Betsy.” But what I wanna say is that when that is the language that’s running around in your head, of course you cannot make a choice. Of course.

Nobody detonates their own house on purpose. And so you stay, and you stay, and you stay, and you stay, and more time goes by. And so what I wanna do is I wanna offer you a different sentence, and this is one that I actually really believe. You are not blowing anything up. You are just changing the way that it operates.

That’s it. That’s all you’re doing. They still have a father, they still have a mother, and honestly, they might end up with a better version of both of those, because when you are a woman who can hear yourself, then you become a better parent than the woman who is disappearing every day in the middle of the kitchen.

A family is not a building. It’s not where everybody sits at Thanksgiving time. It is a group of people who belong to each other, and belonging does not require one common roof and you’re not deciding whether your children get handed this really hard thing. They already are in a hard thing. They are already living in a house with careful voices, and tiptoes, and walking on eggshells, and arguments perhaps, and all of the things. It’s you deciding that’s the hard thing and, and deciding whether this has an end.

So again, I am not telling you to go. I wanna be really clear. I don’t know anything about your marriage. It may be that just the version of your marriage you’re living needs to go, and you could rebuild it depending on where you are. It’s what we do in the Navigate method. But this is me telling you that the comparison that you have been running is not fair to you, because you are comparing a, a happy, intact family to a broken one, and neither one of those are the choices. The real comparison is exactly what it is for however long it’s been against something else that you haven’t let yourself imagine yet.

So compare the real thing to the real thing So let me come back, let me come back to the messages that I get where people tell me that, you know, they need to have this conversation with their kids, and they’re trying to come up with a plan, and they just, they don’t wanna fail. Or they message me and they’re like, “I think I totally screwed this up.”

And so what I wanna say is that you cannot grade yourself on the delivery of one conversation. Your kids aren’t gonna remember one sentence. Almost nobody remembers the sentence. In fact, a lot of kids don’t even remember the conversation. But they remember the next two years, you know? They remember whether the house got calmer.

They remember whether you seemed really happy, you know? They remember whether you were around at 9:00 at night when they wanted to chat about it. You know, and the second thing is about repair. You know, n- if you have a conversation with your kids and it doesn’t go the way that you want, you get to go back.

You get to go back, walk in their room and say, “You know what? I don’t like how that conversation went. Like, that came out wrong.” We don’t have to be perfect. We’re human. You know, I say this to my kid all the time. I’m just a girl. It’s my first time here, trying to figure this out. But do you know what that teaches your kids when you go back and you say, “That came out wrong.

I kinda screwed up. I’m just learning. Can I try that again?” Do you know how rare that is? Do you know how many grown women that never once in their entire life have ever had a parent come back and redo a conversation? That’s the thing that your kid’s gonna remember, not the one bad sentence or the conversation in the car that didn’t go right.

It’s the coming back. It’s the repairing. It’s the you having and finding joy again And, you know, it may be that your kids ask for some truth. You know? Maybe you hedge the conversation, and they ask the question, “Are you gonna, are you gonna get divorced?” And you answer honestly, a real answer from their mother.

Your kid is not gonna remember how you said it or what was happening around it. They’re gonna remember that you didn’t lie to her, even when it cost you something. So I know some of you are listening to this in the car right now with your hands, with your hands at 10:00 and 2:00. That’s how I drive all the time, with your hands at 10:00 and 2:00.

And, you know, you’re listening, and this is just getting filed in the back of your brain. You’re not gonna do anything about it today, and that’s totally fine. Like I, I’m not asking you to. I just want you to notice which part of this that you kinda argued with me when I was talking ’cause that’s the part for you to figure out.

And like I said at the top of the show, you get to choose. You get to choose what part of this works for you, what part of it doesn’t. Maybe it’s some new thoughts. Maybe it’s all things you’ve already thought before. But I want you to notice if there’s something you argued with in your brain about, with me because maybe that’s just some place for you to explore because we don’t argue with things that we know are true.

We just go, “Eh, they’re wrong.” We argue with things that push on a bruise. And so I want you to just think about that one. That’s something that you can sort through. And, you know, this is the work that we do with women inside the Navigate Method. So, you know, book a call with us, and we can talk you through that.

And, you know, if you just wanna get really honest, did you know on my website,, under self-paced courses, like in the menu bar, there is something called The Bridge? It’s like 79 bucks, and it’ll walk you through how to get really honest with yourself about lots of things. Maybe that’s a place to start.

All right. Before we close up, I just want to let you know that our retreat is gonna be live next week, next Tuesday. If you’re on the email list, you’re gonna get an email about it. It’s gonna be in Punta Cana. It’s gonna be on January 21st to the 25th. It includes everything but your transportation, and it is gonna be amazing. It’s gonna be a real adventure. I think we’re gonna dive deep into some really cool things. We’re gonna really develop a life that you really want. We’re gonna think through a lot of hard things that maybe you’ve been rolling around in your brain.

And for those first 10 people, you get 400 bucks off. So make sure you’re on the list, ’cause I think it brings the price way down to like, I don’t know, 24, 2,500 bucks with that, with that discount. So make sure you’re on the mail list, or follow me on Instagram, ’cause I’ll be announcing it on Tuesday, and come with me to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, January 21st through the 25th, 2027.

And if you’re listening to this long after that, we’ll probably doing it again. We, we got a lot of them. Every… T- twice a year probably we’re gonna do them. So I would love to be able to see you and talk about all this stuff in real life. All right. I think when you can look at all that hard stuff and be really brave, I think that is how you live a big life.

All right. I love you so much. I’ll see you guys next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. I have had a really busy week. Tomorrow… Well, I’m recording this on a Wednesday. You guys’ll hear it on Thursday. And tomorrow I’m gonna be on NBC. So I did this last year, and I’m recording a couple episodes, doing something live for them for their noontime show.

You know how, how cities have, like, their local Atlanta station and then they have, like, a little local show? Whatever. It’s still very exciting, and I’m trying to pick out my outfits, so, that’s my big personal update that I’m doing. But I, I have had this conversation, and in fact, I’ve had this same conversation a couple times with a couple different friends, and I think it kinda came up initially because we were talking about this NBC thing.

I know that it’s not- Well, I, I’m about to say something, and what I’m about to say is the exact thing that I’m trying to teach you not to do. Okay? So I noticed that when I was talking about it, I was explaining that, you know, I recognize it’s, it’s not like I’m on Oprah. It’s, it’s the local daytime Atlanta show.

Do you see how I tried to make that seem less? Smaller? Just, like, a little bit not as big of a deal? ‘Cause I don’t wanna feel like it’s a great big deal. It’s not that big of a deal. But also, it is, and it’s really fun, and it’s, like, a cool thing that I’m so grateful to be able to do. And I love the host of the show.

She’s so fricking cool. And last year when I was on, it was so fun, and it was nice to get the video and to have it for my website, and I’m talking about two different topics, you know, in related to our, our work here. And it, seems exciting. I love to talk about it. We’re gonna talk about when you drop your kids off at college and you have nothing to say to your husband on the way home.

And for a recorded episode for later, we’re gonna record a segment on why women are turning to AI. So conversations I really wanna have. So why am I trying to make it smaller? Why am I doing that? And I was talking to this other friend of mine, and we were just, like, catching up, and same kinda thing, and she was talking about some things she was doing and some big trips she was doing, and she tried to make ’em seem a little bit smaller.

And a lot of the women that I know are entrepreneurs, because I’ve met them through entrepreneurial groups, and they’re all really successful. Like, I look up to them so much. And this one friend was talking about how she … how much money she makes and what her goal is for the year and some struggles that she was having.

And I noticed that she was trying to- Like, uh, dummy it down a little bit, you know? And it was just the two of us. Like, we’re on the same page. We both want her to be wildly successful. And, you know, when she noticed that she’s around people who have less successful businesses or maybe make less money than she does, that she does things to try to make her life sound smaller than it is.

She’s not lying, but she’s just not saying it all. She’s, like, editing. You know, trimming down the things she’s getting to do or saying, you know, “It’s not that big of a deal, it’s not Oprah.” I mean, the same things I’m talking about, and it’s so fascinating to me, like, why we do that. And even here when I’m trying to tell you about this and teach you something about it, w- I only te- I always am talking, I am…

If you have been here a little while, you know this, but if you’re new here, I am with you on the journey, so I am teaching stuff as I’m learning it or things that I have learned along the way. But this is something that is continuing to come up, and I think a lot of us do this in little and small ways.

So I wanna talk to you, and I want you to think about the last time that you, like, almost said something and then you didn’t. And not, I don’t mean something mean, but not something you’d regret, but something that was true. And, you know, maybe it was about how you actually feel about your, about your marriage.

Maybe it was about how much money you make or how much you want to make. Maybe it was somebody asking you how you’ve been, and you had a real answer that was, like, right there in your mouth like marbles and you wanted to say it. But instead, you’re like, “You know, it’s been busy. The summer’s busy.” You edited it.

Edited? Yeah. You edited it in, like, a nanosecond, and it w- it probably happened so fast that you didn’t even experience that as a decision. And, and, you know, it was an unconscious decision, not really a conscious choice. And the thing that I want you to notice about that is that you didn’t edit it bec- I’ll never get used to saying that word.

You didn’t edit it because it wasn’t true. You did it because of how it might sound, and that’s a, different thing entirely So I think we have a word for this. We call it humility. You know, don’t brag, don’t make people uncomfortable, read the room, you know, be, be gracious. Nobody likes a woman who takes up too much space, you know?

And look, you know, there is a real version of humility. There is. It’s the thing that keeps you, you curious. It’s knowing that you might be wrong. It’s, it’s not needing to be the center of every room that you walk into. It is a version that is good in that. And so I don’t wanna argue against humility as I just described it.

But somewhere along the way, a second thing got handed to us that we call humility, and that second thing isn’t about being curious or being open to being wrong. It’s about being small. It is a version of you that says, “Whatever you have, don’t say it out loud. Whatever it is you want, keep it to yourself.

And whatever you are carrying, carry it in a way that doesn’t inconvenience anybody.” And that’s not actually humility. That’s, I don’t know, some really heavy form of management. And so I wanna ask you to ask yourself who exactly is that managing? And here’s how I’ve come to think about it, and I’ve been sitting on this one for a little while.

If you guys have been here, you’ve heard me talk about how I read that book,, it’s called The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to Be Good. And in that, she talks about the seven deadly sins, how we think those are tied to the Bible, but they’re not. It’s actually tied to the patriarchy, and they are a way to keep us in check, to keep us in line. So a woman who makes herself small is a woman who is easier to be around.

She’s easier to be married to. She’s easier to employ. She’s easier to have as a sister or a mother or a friend. She doesn’t disrupt anything, and she takes up exactly the amount of space that’s already been allotted to her and, and doesn’t ask for anything more than that. And that is really useful. It’s, it’s just not useful to her.

But it is useful because think about what actually happens when you downplay your life to make someone else comfortable. Nobody gets richer. Nobody gets happier. You know, the, the person that’s sitting there across from you doesn’t feel better about their situation because you shrank yours.

All that happens is now there are two people in the room being smaller than they are, because if you stayed big, would they grow to meet you? You didn’t give anybody anything. You just, you just modeled something. And if you have daughters or nieces or younger women that watch you, you know, they, they learned it, too.

They learn it quick. We learned it quick, right? And you don’t have to actually name it or, like, say a thing about it. We pick it up And here’s what I want you to think about this, because a lot of you listening are in the middle of a decision about your marriage, right? Some of you have been in the middle of that decision for years.

I like to think I’m not alone. When I was in indecision for years and years, and years. But I want you to consider that this same habit is running inside that too. So I want you to think about how you talk about your marriage, like to your friends or to your sister or, you know, even, like in your own head when you’re just, like, going for a walk or you’re in the car all alone.

Like, do you say it like it is? Or do you tell it in a way that sounds reasonable? Because there is a really particular thing that I think we do, and I hear it all the time, is that she will describe something that is genuinely painful, and then she’ll immediately follow it up with, “Oh, but he’s a good dad.

But it’s not like he’s a bad guy. But I’m sure I’m not easier to live with either, you know? I know a lot of people have it worse.” And, you know, I, I mean, every single one of those things might be true. I think that’s what makes this little pattern so sneaky. Because if you watch what the words are actually doing, it’s, it’s taking the thing that you just said and shrinking it back down to a size that doesn’t require anybody to do anything about it, including you.

And that is the same, same reflex, you know? It’s the same move. Now, I know a lot of you are, are deeply fair people, and you’d hate to be unfair about a man or a job or whatever that you have spent decades with. I get that But I wanna offer the idea that being accurate is a different job than being fair.

And you can be super fair and be wildly inaccurate about you. You know, people describe to me all the time, like, so many years of loneliness, so many years of frustration. I remember in my own marriage, that was how I would describe it. That was the biggest word I would use, is I mean, insanely frustrated.

I could not understand why what felt like very simple asks were n- being completely disregarded. Like, it, it just seemed, it was, like, m- crazy-making. And I hear other women saying the same thing. They will describe years of loneliness, and then spend the next, you know, four paragraphs out of their mouth making sure that he still sounds okay, that they have been fair.

Then, and, you know, we tell a lot of stories in which our loneliness was, or our frustration was just, like, a detail in the story, but how he appears becomes, like, the whole point of the thing. Again, I wanna be really careful how I say this, ’cause I’m not saying we need to be unfair, and I’m not saying everything’s all his fault.

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that the softener that you’re doing isn’t kindness to him. He’s not even here when we’re talking. The softener is for you. It’s for you to make sure that what you said doesn’t sound like too much. And so here’s kind of the question that I have been asking myself as I tell the story about how I’m not gonna be on Oprah.

And I wanna offer it to you. What would I be saying right now if I weren’t worried about how it sounded? That’s, that’s it. That’s the whole thing What would I be saying right now if I wasn’t worried about how it sounded? Not what’s the right answer, not, like, what would a good woman say. What would I say if I didn’t seem like I

thought I was too much? I don’t want people to think I think too much of myself or that I’m so great. That is, like, such a thing, right? So just strip out the part of me that’s monitoring this whole thing, and what is left? And I’ll tell you what I’ve noticed when I do this, is that the answer comes really fast.

It, it’s n- it’s, it’s really obvious to me. It’s sitting right there, just, like, a half an inch below, below my voice box. And the sentence that I was about to say, which tells you something really important, which is we already know. We’re not confused. I’m not confused And even as I’m, I wanna say, like, I’m not confused about being on NBC tomorrow.

It’s so fun. What a cool thing. There was a version of me 10 years ago that would have dreamed of this, to dream of picking out my outfits, you know? Like, how fun. I know from last time when I was on, we got millions of views. Like, that’s amazing marketing. Like, why would I try and make that sound less? And it is a habit.

So it doesn’t always feel like it’s suppression. It feels like I’m being humble. It feels like being mature, right? I’m not making this too big of a deal. It’s no big deal And so how do you know if you’re being, like, I don’t know, uh, genuinely gracious or if you’re just shrinking? ‘Cause I think they look the same from, like, the other side of the table, you know?

And here’s what I found. There are some things that we can check, and we can check them super quick, okay? So I want you to notice the speed. So real consideration takes a beat. Like, you think about the person, you think about the moment, and you make a choice. Shrinking is instant. It happens before the thought.

So it, happens really, really quick. It wasn’t a decision. It never came into your consciousness. It was a reflex, okay? So real consideration is I’m talking to somebody, and I’m like, “I know they just lost their job, so I’m not gonna talk about how I just got a raise.” Like, I’m gonna just… Right?

That’s real consideration. Now, doing it shrinking is when you are talking to somebody who’s doing great, and you’re like, “Oh, yeah, it’s no big deal. I mean, I got a little raise, but whatever. Everybody got one.” Do you see what I mean? You notice a little difference, right? Here’s the second thing, is you’re gonna notice how you feel afterwards.

When you have been genuinely kind, you feel good about it, right? They just lost their job. I’m not gonna talk about how I just got a raise. You know? Maybe you feel a little proud of yourself. But when you make yourself small, you feel something else. You feel kinda flat. Sometimes I feel a little tired, I’ll notice, and there’s sort of, like, ugh, I wish I didn’t do that, and that feeling, I think, is the data, right?

It’s the feeling of, like, there’s a room I could walk into, but I’m not gonna walk into it because I don’t wanna look like I wanna be in the room. So silly. And then number three is, like, who’s more comfortable in this? Like, real, like, graciousness, I’m gonna call it, it, it usually costs you something small, and it gives somebody something that’s really real, you know?

Shrinking costs you something real, and nobody cares. Nobody gives you anything. So if you look at the room afterwards and you’re like, “Nobody benefited. Nobody benefits from me saying, ‘Well, it’s not Oprah.'” Like, nobody cares. You guys will… You’ll get off this podcast, and you’ll never think about how I’m on NBC again ’cause who…

‘Cause you don’t… You know what I mean? ‘Cause you got your own life. So it’s not me being humble. It’s me being safe or not wanting to seem too big or like I’m, like I think I’m d- so great instead of just owning this is a really cool, fun thing I get to do, and there’s no shame in that. And it isn’t Oprah, that’s true, but you don’t get to Oprah until you get to this.

It’s on the way. I don’t know. Is it on the way? It- you know where I’m on the way to Drew Barrymore? That’s where we’re headed, folk. If I could be on The Drew Barrymore Show, I just want her to sit on my lap while we talk. That’s what I want. So I’m not gonna go tell you to, like, announce your new raise and your new salary over a giant dinner party.

That’s not what I’m saying, but I think you need to catch it. You just need to, to notice it. You don’t have to even fix it, just notice the moment where you were about to say something that was true and something reached in and sort of changed the dials a little bit, and notice how many times a day it happens.

Most of the time, I think… I think this is accurate, most women would be shocked at how many times they do it. In little ways you will shrink yourself. It might be with your husband. It might be with coworkers. It might be with yourself. You’re just talking to yourself and you do it. So just let yourself know the answer.

Just let that exist because I don’t think we can make real decisions about our life using this edited information, and if the only version of your life that you have ever said out loud is the version that was pre-approved for everybody else to be comfortable with, then you have been trying to decide something enormous based on like a, a, like a kernel of it that you have created for somebody else.

Like, no wonder life feels like it’s a slog, and no wonder we’re not getting where we wanna go. Don’t you think, honestly, if I was declaring I wanted to be on The Drew Barrymore Show and I was just talking about it all the time, like thinking about it in my own life and allowing it to be available to me, don’t you think if I was owning internally the fact that I’m gonna get to practice and be on NBC and do live, live TV, like that’s freaking cool.

Atlanta’s a big market Like, don’t you think that would help me? And everything, if you’ve been here a while, everything you know about our brains and how our brains work, and how we actually create, don’t you think me owning it would help me to see a possibility in the future where the next thing I wanted would be available to me?

Where the stretch didn’t seem that big. Because I’m creating a bigger space between me and Drew Barrymore by making this seem really small. If I made it seem bigger, the gap would close. Do you see what I mean? So I want you to think about where you’re doing this, where you’re keeping yourself from the next level of things that you want in an effort to be attainable in this version of you, in an effort to be eaten.

Do you know what I mean by that? I don’t know why that’s the word coming to me, but it, to be absorbed, you know? You don’t wanna be too big of a chunk. Nobody’ll be able to chew it. So you try to make it really tiny. You’re not too much. You never, ever have been too much. You just learned early that by being a little bit less, you were safer, and you got so good at it That you forgot that it was a skill that you were taught and not a fact about who you are.

So when you can start to do that, that is how I think you live a big life. All right, one last thing before we go. Punta Cana. We’re going to Punta Cana, you guys, January 21st to the 25th. We’re going to Zelle Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. The tickets are gonna go on sale one week from Friday, so September 10th, tickets will go on sale.

It’s gonna be so fun. You don’t wanna miss it. If you were at the previous retreat or you’re inside one of my programs, you’re gonna get pre-sale stuff, so you could get a ticket early. We’ve got some special stuff for the first 10 people that come in. We’ve got special swag bags. You’re gonna get to work with me before the event, and we are going to design a life that you really love.

So if you’re not on my mail list, please check. Get on my mail list. Just go to my website. All the way down at the bottom, just add your name and add yourself to the mail list. If you don’t wanna be on my mail list, that’s okay, too. You can just check next Friday, and I will post about it in my stories on Instagram, and we’ll do a post in the feed probably, too.

So join us, join us. You don’t have to have ever worked with me before. It’s so, it’s so fun, and I’m telling you, last time we all connected. I mean, everybody stayed an extra day. It was so fun. So I definitely want you there. You’re included. Don’t shrink it down. All right. I love you guys so much. I will see you next week.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. All right, so, so today’s episode is, is sort of, I don’t know, specific, I’m gonna say. Aren’t all the episodes specific? But I got a message on Instagram, and, you know, sometimes I’ll get messages, and they are like other messages that I’ve gotten. So it’s easy to do, like, a podcast episode on them because it’s a really common question or a common thing people are going through, or it’s something that I know from my own life, right?

And so when I got this question, though, I was like, “Oh, that’s actually a really good question, and I don’t know if anybody’s actually asked me that before.” And so what it was, it, it wasn’t like a coaching question. It was more like a logistics question. So what she wanted to know was she wanted to know how I did it.

So she said, “It seems like you’ve rebuilt your life, and it seems really happy. But it also seems like you’ve rebuilt your whole life. How did you know what to build?” I was like, I mean, I didn’t even know what to say, ’cause how do you answer that? How do you… H- how did you know what to build? So, I kept thinking about it, and I thought, you know what?

That likely deserves its own episode because the, the honest answer is that I, I did not know. Like, there was no plan. I think sometimes people look at my life now, and they assume that there was some kind of blueprint, and there was not. But there was about a year of me getting it wrong, I say wrong with air quotes, in a bunch of different directions, and so that’s what today is.

So today I wanna name you a couple things. Three things I picked, even though I could come up with, like, 15 things, but three things seems like a good amount for a podcast. I wanna give you three things that I wish somebody had said to me at the very beginning of all that, because I think they would have saved me a little bit of time.

And honestly, this is the work that I do, right? I went through something, and I wanna save everybody a bit of time by explaining it. And so, you know, I think that when we make a decision, I remember when I made my decision to leave my husband, I gotta tell you, e- every day over the past couple weeks, I’ve been like, “I’m so glad I did that.

I’m so glad I did that.” But I think when we get to that place where we make that decision, at least for me it was not this. Like, I don’t even care what happens. I mean, of course I cared, but I don’t even care. It’s just not this. I was fully, fully 100% on board with just living my own life as a single woman, like, happily forever, and that is great for me.

You know, will I be single forever? I, I don’t know, but I… That’s the way I wanted to build my life, right? So it wasn’t like, “I’m gonna leave this big hole here for somebody to fill. I’m gonna do everything but this thing and hope somebody else h-” Like, uh-uh. Like, I was gonna f- build my life. I was gonna make my health the way I wanted.

I was gonna make my financial life the way I wanted. I was gonna make my home the way I wanted. I was gonna make my friendships the way I wanted. I was gonna make my activities the way I wanted. Like, I was gonna build my life for me. And so here’s the thing If you are sitting somewhere in your house or in your car, I know you’re in your car.

You’re sitting in your car in the driveway, but a lot of you do a lot of thinking in your car, and you may have had this feeling that the life that you’re living was designed by somebody that was a, a younger version of you, somebody that you don’t totally recognize anymore. And maybe it’s not a bad life, you know?

That sometimes is the part that can get really confusing, because it might not be that anything is, like, wildly on fire. It’s just that when you look around and you look at your calendar and you look at your house and you look at your weekend plans and your friendships, you can trace every single piece of it back to a decision that you made a long time ago for reasons that were probably good reasons, probably good reasons at the time.

But now you’re standing in the middle of this, like, midlife, which I kinda hate when we’re, like, midlife. Ugh, like it’s this big thing, but it is. It is. So now you’re standing here, and in the middle of all of this saying, “Would I choose this again?” Right? Would I choose this again? And I know some of you are listening to this from inside a marriage where you have not decided anything, and you are not sure if you want to. You know, redesigning your life is not the same thing as leaving your life. Those are two really different projects, and I don’t think we have to get them all tangled up together.

Some of the biggest redesigns that I have ever had in my own life and that I’ve watched other people have happened inside marriages, inside relationships, even inside marriages where people stayed. You know, the- the woman that- that changed everything about how she was living, and she did it without moving out of her house, is a possible, is, it, that is a real thing.

So take these three things and put them, like, wherever they fit in your life because I’m not pointing you in any specific direction. Stay, leave, maybe you’re single, like, all the things. Okay. That is my disclaimer ’cause I never tell you what to do. Okay. All right. So the first thing that everybody tells you when your life comes apart or when you decide to take it apart, you know, on purpose, is to get clear on what you want.

I had this conversation with somebody the other day, like, being really clear and having a clear vision. You know? Making the list. Do the vision boarding thing. Like, what do you want your life to actually look like? And I sat down with a blank page and that question, and I could not answer it, and I don’t mean, like, I struggled with it, and I don’t mean, like, I wrote a couple things and they weren’t quite right.

I mean nothing. Nothing came I just sat there, and there was no big idea, no big yearning or pulling. I just remember thinking, “Ugh.” Like, I just… I’m, I’m getting out of something I knew was a no. No. Hell no. I knew that, but I didn’t know what was next, and I remember thinking, “Oh, is this a problem? Like, is this the problem?”

Because I had been answering that question on behalf of other people for so long that I did not have my own answer anymore, and every time I tried to write something down, I could hear how it would sound to somebody else. I could hear my ex, I could hear my family, I could hear the version of me that was supposed to be handling all these things.

And so the list that came out started sounding like a woman being really reasonable. It did not come out sounding like me. And, you know, I think a lot of you have had this exact experience, where you thought, “I don’t know what I want, , and, and I can’t get to the core of it, and that must mean something’s wrong.

Must mean something’s wrong with me.” You know, like, you’re the woman who can’t figure out what she wants, but that is not it. I don’t think that’s it. If you have spent any amount of time, you know, 20 years, whatever, being the person who gets to make sure that everybody else is okay, of course you cannot produce your want list on demand.

Like, that is a skill, to be able to imagine something different. I mean, imagine something different. Like, it’s not just imagining something you’ve seen other people do, okay? So hang with me. You can imagine things that you’ve seen other people do, and you could be like, “Sure, I could see that as being a thing.”

But what about imagining something different? Something you’ve never seen anybody do, in the way that you wanna do it. And that skill is a skill, and it’s probably got really quiet ’cause you stopped using it. And so here’s what actually worked, and it, it was the opposite of, like, direction. I stopped asking myself, “What do I want?”

And I started asking, “What am I saying yes to out of habit?” Because that was a question that I could answer. I could answer that one immediately. I knew, like, immediately. I was like, “Oh, well that’s a habit. This is a habit. That’s a habit.” And I had a whole list of habits in, like, just a couple minutes. ‘Cause you always know.

You know, you know that one. You know the thing on your calendar that you dread, but it’s always there. You know the friendship that you have that you keep just out of loyalty or ’cause you’ve had them for so long, even though you feel like the version of the friendship that actually felt good was gone a long time ago.

You notice the way you spend your Sunday afternoons, the things you wanna participate in, the way you keep your house, right? Nobody asked you to keep your kitchen or your bathroom or any of those things the way that they are. So you know exactly what those things are. And I think this is why this works a little bit better, is because you can’t design a new life while the old one is fully running.

You know, I, I, I wanna… I don’t wanna get too far down a rabbit hole of how our brains work. If you’ve been listening here for a while, you’ve heard me talk about this, but, but you can’t fit anything else in when the old program is, like, fully installed. There’s no room. So the wanting shows up in the space, but if there’s no space, there’s nothing to want with.

I hope that makes sense. You gotta have space. So the first thing, I don’t think is the vision. The first thing is noticing. Noticing what are you still doing, only because you’ve always done it. And so don’t do anything about any of that yet. Don’t quit anything, don’t cancel anything, don’t have some big conversation with anybody.

Just write down what’s on that list, and then notice it, ’cause that list is actually the starting point. It would be great if we could have some big delulu vision. I know we talk about that all the time, but I think the starting point is actually noticing where you are and everything about what leads into that Okay, so the second thing, the second thing that I did to redesign my life, and this is one that, I don’t know, I think this is probably the most useful thing that I’m gonna share if I had to look at the list.

But you can want something. Like, you can want something, you can choose it, you can be totally right about it, and you can be absolutely flattened with sadness about what it costs you. Now, when I left my marriage, I was not sad about the marriage ending. I was thrilled. I, I n- I don’t… I honest to God, by the time I’d made that decision, I did not shed a tear, like not once.

And I don’t say that… Uh, uh, that’s sad to me, like that’s sad to me, but I was so absolutely done, and the fact that I stayed so long was the sadness that I had to deal with You know, uh, uh, when I started noticing that, like, my first thought every single time was like, “Oh, my God, w- why did I wait so long? I made such a mistake in delaying.

I wasted years.” And I could be having a completely good day, like a good day, and then I would be somewhere and I would think, “Why the heck didn’t I leave a long time ago?” Now I’m 52, 53 years old and doing this, starting over. Like, I gave up so much to get out, and I walked away from so much to choose myself, and that’s what I chose.

I chose myself. And so I had to go to the place where I was sad that I didn’t do it with hindsight. Like, we get to the place where we have hindsight. W- what do they say? Hindsight’s 20/20, right? And then you look back and you’re like, “Oh, my God, I coulda done it here, I coulda done it here. When I left the first time, why didn’t I stay go- gone?”

I knew. Like, I knew. When I came back, I knew. I, I, I just came back ’cause I was tired. It was easier. And so, you know, I, when I would feel that, like, sadness, I would just be like, “This is just a, a grief that I have to deal with.” It’s not a review of my decision. I didn’t leave when I didn’t leave because I couldn’t leave.

I left when I could. I wasn’t ready. And I think some of you might need to hear that. Like, it’s not because I didn’t want to, it’s because I wasn’t ready, and we can’t do things until we’re ready, and that’s okay. And grief just means you recognize what that cost you. That’s all it means. I was sad because something real I felt was taken from me, time, and that means that I think my life is important, and that means that I am so happy I chose when I did and I didn’t take any more time That’s the grief.

That’s what I had to come to grips with. But I think we have this thing where we feel like there’s this, like, pros and cons list. Like, we think if we can just get our feelings to settle down, right? We’ll know we did the right thing. You know, we’ll know this was the choice. Uh, like, it’s never gonna be right, wh- whatever right is in our minds.

Like, it’s never, you’re never gonna score a perfect 10 on the exiting at the exact moment you were supposed to. If I had left five years before when I had left the first time, I probably would have thought I should have left five years before that. I knew right away that something was wrong. So my grief, my, my feelings, my mood, if you will, was telling me that it mattered It wasn’t telling me anything else.

And I think once I understood that things can matter, and I can still move forward, and I’m learning about myself, and that the timing was when I could, then I think that grief started to integrate and lessen, and instead I started to become appreciative of where I was and who I was. You guys might remember in a earlier episode, and I won’t tell the whole story, but I got up on New Year’s Day and I was mad at my ex, and I had to sit with that and recognize I wasn’t really mad at him.

Why would I even be thinking about him still? Like, I was mad at me, and I had to reckon with that. I had to reckon with those earlier versions of me who were l- God, she was hanging on by her toenails, doing the best she could. And I think honoring her and, everything she went through was to release her from some expectation that this version of me has, ’cause this version of me w- would not tolerate it.

Do you know what I mean? But I wasn’t this version. But I had to be that version to get to here. Okay, so my next one, the third one. Okay, so let’s say you le- you cleared some space, you stopped treating your feelings like they’re wrong, and now you actually get to the place where you’re like, “I get to build something.”

And here’s what I think made me, I don’t know, I, I wanna say, like, lost the most time. But for about a year, I think every decision that I made, I was really only asking one question: is this safe? Like, that’s it. That was the filter. Is this safe? Can I afford it? What happens if it goes wrong? What’s the smallest version of this I could do?

Maybe not quite. We could try that. I don’t know. And I’m an entrepreneur, and I’m, not risk-averse. I’m not. But I noticed I was leaning into safety. I needed to feel a certain level of safety. And I, I, I think that can be a valid question, but I also think if it’s your only question, then you start to build a very small life.

And then you will sit inside it a year later going, “Why does this not feel big enough?” Right? I did the hard thing. I got out, I rebuilt. Why does this feel like nothing? And I think- That, you know, when I look back, I, I left, well, I left in August. It took forever to sell my house. Moved into my apartment at the end of December, I think, and then it was probably the summer before I was like, “Oh, I’m doing this safety thing.”

And it made a lot of sense ’cause a survivor builds a shelter. She doesn’t build a life. Those are two different projects. And I don’t wanna say go be reckless. I’m not saying, like, spend money that you don’t have, or blow up your life, or take a leap. Like, that’s not what I’m saying. The point is that the question I was using was too small, and maybe it’s the question I had to have for several months just until I could feel that stability for myself.

I remember being so anxious all the time. I was anxious I would see him, like, walking the dog. He doesn’t live terribly far from me, I think maybe a mile or two. I was afraid I would run into him on the street. , I was afraid, and I noticed, like, I was trying to build a whole bunch of safety mechanisms around me in order to avoid that fear so that when I came back home I knew that it was safe.

Now, I wanna be clear. He wasn’t beating me or anything like that, , but it was not emotionally safe place to be. So What changed for me was switching to a different question, and this is one that I still use and I still like it for big things and small things. Here’s the question, and I’ve talked about this in another episode in another way, , when I went to Vermont, that episode.

But it’s who is the kind of person that I want to be? Not what do I want, ’cause we’ve already established that I couldn’t answer that one for a little while. It’s not what’s the safest, because I had been living inside that one. But who is the kind of person I wanna be? And then, would she do this? Because there is a version of you that chooses much differently.

She just does. You know, ask a scared woman whether to take the trip, and she’ll turn into the calculator in her phone and run the numbers and figure it all out and see if it makes sense and Google and ask ChatGPT, but ask the woman that you want to be whether to take the trip, and you’ll get an answer just like that.

And it’s not that she’s reckless, by the way. That’s not it, and that’s not what surprised me. The woman that I want to be says no to a lot of things. She says no faster than the scared version does, because the scared version negotiates things and explains and tries to weigh options and tries to be nice about it.

The woman that I want to be just doesn’t have that much interest. So you have to notice which version of you you’re living inside, because if, if it’s the one who just came through something hard, she’s going to design for protection. I think that’s normal. And protection is not the same. It’s not the same as a life.

It’s the first thing you need, but it’s also a terrible thing to organize the rest of your life around. Okay So if you wanna have actually something to do this week, here’s what I would do, and I’ve made it really small on purpose. I want you to write down three things that you are doing purely out of habit.

Not big stuff, just regular stuff, just ordinary stuff. And then look at each one and ask, “Who is the kind of person I want to be, and does she keep doing this thing?” You don’t have to change any of those things. This isn’t, like, a homework assignment where you have to have a life overhaul this week. I just want you to find out how much of your week belongs to a woman who made decisions about things, like, a long time ago for reasons that might not even be true anymore.

And I’ll tell you what usually happens when people do this, ’cause I’ve watched women do this, is that one of them is gonna seem really like, oh, my God. T- there’s always one where you go, “Oh, I already knew about that one.” That’s your first one to just really pay attention to, . So all right, one more thing that I wanna say before I go.

People assume that the story of the last few years of my life is a story that you can see online. It’s a story of me sharing nights out with my friends. It’s a story of me going on trips. It’s a story of me really discovering, like, what I like to wear and how I like to show up as myself. It’s a story of me helping women and building my business.

It’s, like, a beautiful story, but it’s not a story about how life got easier. My life is not easy. I’m renting. I got a cat that won’t shut up. I have a business and a whole lot of ordinary days, and there is a lot of things that I am still figuring out. It’s not that things got easy. It’s that I stopped needing it to be easy before I made it mine, and that’s the thing that’s available to you way, way, way earlier than you think it is.

You don’t have to have it all sorted out before you’re allowed to claim it as yours. You can be in the middle of the mess and still build something with an intention and a purpose. You already know what your habit list is, so say it out loud. Figure out your one thing. And I think when you can do that, I think that is how you live a big life.

All right, everyone, I love you guys so much. I will see you guys next week.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. I’m excited to be here. I’m also recording it on a Tuesday, and I know that probably means nothing to you, but it does mean something to Joy, who edits these podcasts. So I’m quite pleased with myself. I’m celebrating. That’s, like, the big win. I’m on it, you guys.

I am on it. We missed a couple weeks because of Belize and just, like, all the things happening around that, and so I feel really good about being back on track and back with you. All right. So today, I’ve been thinking about this. There’s so many things. I wanna say, I, I feel like we need to have a… Here’s what I really want.

I want, like, a, a private podcast where you guys could come in, where I know who’s listening, and I can tell you all kinds of stories. Like, I have so many stories from the last six weeks, probably, crazy and amazing, and, the magical universe continues to unfold in wonderful ways that delight me. And so and so, I, because- I don’t know who listens, do you know what I mean, ’cause we’re not just in a room together.

When… This is why we need to have retreats. This is why I do the retreats. So today, I have had something I’ve wanted to talk about, and I’m trying to figure out, like, how can I talk about this? And so I’m gonna say something that might feel… Like, you might be like, “Ugh.”

You, you might turn this off, but hang with me, if you would. And if you’re new here, I promise I’ll make it about you at the end, okay? So everything has always worked out for me. I know. I know that some of you made a face. It’s okay. I don’t mean that everything went the way that I wanted it to, because it didn’t, and I have had years that I would, leave notes sometime in my journal that say, like, “Time travelers, do not return to this day,” you know?

I, I, I have had years that I wouldn’t sign up for a second time. You know, if you’ve been here for a while, you know the story about me going to school one day, in high school, and my mom dying in a car accident while I was gone. You know, so, it’s not that things went the way that I wanted. Right? It’s not that everything was magical and perfect.

You know, that whole deal with my mother, like that did not w- that did not work out, okay? And I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that it did or that there’s some, like amazing silver lining. There are things that have spawned from that that I wouldn’t have had, experiences I wouldn’t have had because that happened.

But it sucked, and I’ve had lots of other things that have sucked and I have had decades that sucked in a miserable marriage. And here I am, and my life is good, and I like who I am, and all of those things can be true at the same time, and it took me a really long time to understand that they could be.

And, you know, if you’ve been here for a while, I’ve done episodes in the past. You know, a few years ago, I think I did several episodes on magic, and not the kind of magic like, you know, where you’re cooking toadstools or whatever. But the kind of magic where you’re shifting your perspective, the kind of magic that we talk about in A Course In Miracles, right?

That a, a miracle is a shift in perspective. But I wanna tell you about a word. Abracadabra. Abracadabra is the thing that you say before the thing appears, right? That’s, that’s what it f- is for. That’s what people do first, right? The, the rabbit isn’t in the hat yet. There’s nothing up the sleeve. The magician has no evidence at that point, and he says it anyway.

He says, “Abracadabra,” out loud in front of everybody. And that’s actually the whole trick. It’s not the rabbit. It’s saying it first. And you probably used to be like that, right? You did. There is a version of you who wanted something and just said it before you had any reason to believe that it was coming the word itself, abracadabra, and you know I love w- you know I love the words. If you’ve been in the Navigate method, you know. People will say a word, and I’ll be like, “Let’s get the dictionary.” Like, what does it actually mean, right? But abracadabra stems from a meaning of I create as I speak.

And now somewhere along the way, you stopped saying the thing that you wanted. Maybe you stopped saying it first. Maybe you’ve just stopped. And now you wait. Like, you want something, and you keep it inside until you can see how it could possibly work. You wanna be able to explain it. You want a plan attached to it before you’ll say it out loud.

We create as we speak, and our words have vibration. So you want everything figured out before you’ll say it out loud or to another person. And it probably feels responsible. It does, right? But what you’re actually doing is waiting for the rabbit before you say the word, and it’s backwards. It’s actually not how any of it works

I think we do this because there is an element in us that is, that is tired. We are tired, and we don’t wanna be disappointed. And I hear people say, “I don’t wanna get my hopes up all the time.” Do you guys remember many years ago when I was looking for a house, and I wanted that mid-century modern house? I still get in bed and think about that , think about that house.

I think I offered, like, $100,000 more than asking, and I didn’t get it. Somebody else got it, and I was so disappointed. I see the benefit of it now that I didn’t get that. I’m glad. And I remember at the time knowing I really wanted it, like, knowing I was leaning in, knowing I was letting myself sort of get ahead of myself, and also knowing that I could handle the disappointment, that it felt so fun to be excited about it.

It felt so fun to dream about it. Now, without a doubt, I know that my perfect mid-century modern home is is coming. At some point, I don’t know when, I don’t have to know, but I know it’s coming because I lingered in that for so long. I lingered in it without the fear, and when I didn’t get it, it w- it was crushing.

My little heart was pulverized, and I handled it. I’m still here. It worked out just fine. I’m still dreaming. It didn’t squash my hopes or dreams. It didn’t take away anything. It just was a little blip as I talk to the universe and explain what it is that I want. Okay. So what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna ask you to just be a little delulu.

Be a little delusional. And I wanna be careful with that word ’cause I know the internet has been using it to mean, like, to pretend everything’s fine, and that’s not what I mean. I don’t want you lying to yourself, and I don’t want you calling a bad thing a good thing, right? I don’t want you finding the silver lining in, like, a shit sandwich.

Like, that’s not the goal. But delusional, to me, means that you refuse to require evidence in advance. You want the thing before you can prove that it’s possible, and you say it out loud. Say it with me. We’ll say it out loud, right? Do you guys remember when I went to Iceland, and I had … At the time, I had left my husband And I had decided I was just gonna travel around for like six months, and I wanted to really work on myself and get some space.

And I had gone down to Florida, and I had gotten an Airbnb for a month, and I was sitting in bed one night looking at TikToks, and I saw this TikTok of this guy who was snowshoeing. It was in Finland, and he was snowshoeing, and the video was like the northern lights swirling above him. And do you guys remember, I said out loud, out loud, “I want that.

I want that.” And the that that it was, it was, it was the feeling like life was magical. It was noticing like just the beauty of the world that I am so lucky to be in. It was feeling free, I think, and it was just like th- I just, I, I want that. I watched that video like 20 times. I remember thinking, “How many times have I watched this?”

over and over and over again. And like the music in the background was like … I was crying. So repetition, heightened emotion, clarity. I want that. Now, you know, I didn’t even own a winter coat at that time. So it wasn’t like I wanna go to the w- like cold. But if you guys remember, the very next day as I’m scrolling on Facebook, I see a post in a group I’m in saying, “We have one spot left.

We’re going to chase the northern lights in Iceland. Does anybody want it?” And I said, “Whoops, I guess that’s for me.” And it went against who I was at that time to just do that, and it gave me clarity, and it gave me confidence, and I believe it helped project me forward on my, on my m- mission in my life.

But I said it out loud, “I want that.” I ordered off the menu, and it came. And I’ve said that here before, and I’m gonna keep saying it, ’cause that’s what it is. You order the thing, and you don’t wait to find out whether the kitchen has it. You just order it knowing it’s coming. When I was pregnant, I, I got the room ready.

I knew it was coming even though I couldn’t see it. Well, I mean, I could I could feel it. I knew something was happening, but I prepared because I had belief. I didn’t know if everything would work out, but I had belief that it would.

Every time that you say it first and it works out, you get a little more willing to say it again. And that’s why it looks like everything works out for some people, right? It’s not that they’re the luckiest. I, I remember I was in a training years ago, I think I’ve talked about this on the show, but I was in this training and this woman said, “I hate it when people say I’m lucky.

I’ve worked hard. I’ve worked hard.” And I remember thinking, “I don’t wanna work hard. I wanna be lucky. I wanna be so lucky. I want everything to just work out.” And I don’t think that- People have more luck or less luck, I think that it’s what you’re expecting. It’s not that people get luckier, they’ve just been saying it out loud longer, and so they have more proof.

And so they say it faster, and they believe it more, and then they get more proof. And you can start saying that on… at any age. Like, you don’t have to start when you’re young. You could start right now, although we are young, right? But there’s no window on it. There’s no, like, you have to do this between 21 and 27.

Like, that’s the part that’s sort of magic about it. And, you know, I have said before that your whole life can change in a single day. I learned that. I’m so grateful for whatever my brain did as a young kid, however my brain was programmed. I, I, you know, I don’t know what made it possible, but when my mom died, when I went to school one day and my mom got in a car accident, and I thought, “Life can change in a fricking instant.”

Like, I, got up one day and life was good, and I went to bed and it was never ever the same. It will never be the same as it was that morning I got up. And so I knew, because my brain did something funky, that that could go in the opposite direction. I knew if I believed one, I had to believe the other.

And your whole life can change in a single day. You know that ’cause you’ve lived it. You’ve woken up as one person and gone to bed as another person too. Nobody warns you. You learned that the hard way. And so did I. But the ground isn’t unfixed in one direction. It’s just unfixed. And if it can all change in one way, it can all change in the other way, too.

It’s the same exact mechanism, which means that the thing that you could want could show up next week, and you would have no way of seeing it right now, where you’re sitting right now. And I don’t think that’s, like, optimism. I actually think that’s just how it works. Because if you believe that my mom died and my whole life changed in an instant, then you have to believe the other, that that’s how it works.

Okay. So now, if you are sitting here in this, like, big decision right now, maybe about your life or about your marriage or about your, where you live or whatever, I wanna say something to you, and that is that you cannot make that decision from a place where you believe nothing can change. Because if you believe that your life is fixed, then every door looks like it’s going someplace terrible.

And you look one way and you see the next 20 years of exactly this thing, and you look the other way and you see loss. And then people ask you, “How come you can’t just make a decision?” You can’t decide because nothing you’re looking at has any possibility in it. And I’m not telling you what to do.

I’ve never told you what to do. But I want you to notice whether you’re deciding from a life you believe can still change or from one that you’ve decided is probably just finished, that this is just how it is I got a message from a woman that went through the program, and she had celebrated her wedding anniversary.

Dinner out, great night. She said a year earlier, she never, ever would’ve imagined that she would be on the back of a motorcycle holding onto her husband, having the best day. And you know what she actually wrote word for word, here I’m quoting her, is that, “He didn’t suddenly turn into a knight in shining armor on a horse to swoop me up on a magical day.

I created the magical day by trusting myself to say yes to the experience that I wanted to have.” Wow, right? She didn’t wait for someone to hand her a magical day. She said it out loud first, right? So say it before you can prove it. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. That’s the podcast. Say the thing that you want out loud in front of somebody.

Well, there’s nothing in the hat. Everything has always worked out for me, not in the way that I planned it, but it has. And I want that to be true for you, too. I want you to be able to recognize that you’ve got abracadabra- don’t let anyone who doesn’t have abracadabra take away any of your magic. And if you’re in a decision right now about your marriage, and you can’t hear yourself, and you don’t know how to find the magic, well, well, I made a free masterclass. There is a free masterclass you can go to, and it doesn’t tell you what to do. But it does tell you how we can help you. You can find it on my website, just at betsy pake dot com. But I want you to think about if I believed there was possibility, what would I do? I promise you wouldn’t stay stagnant. If you believed in the abracadabra, you would say it out loud, and you would notice what you felt called to do.

All right. And you know, when you can do that, I think that’s how you live a big life. I gotta finish with that every time, you guys. All right. If you wanna talk to us about coming into the Navigate Method, and I’ve got something else coming soon, if you’ve already left your husband or you’re never gonna leave your husband, I love that for you, too, I’ve got something cool coming.

I’m gonna talk about it in the next couple weeks. We’re gonna be launching the next retreat. Please, please come so I can tell you all the things I can’t say on the podcast. And yeah, I love you guys so much. I will see you, I will see you next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. I have been missing for a couple weeks. We went to Belize for our retreat, and it was … Oh, my God, it was so great. I, I wish you could have been there. It was this group of people that came together. Some of them had worked with me, but most of them hadn’t. But everybody got along.

I- it was insane how awesome it was. It was girlhood, you know? We played in the pool. We did some work on ourselves. We d- you know, had drinks by the moonlight. I mean, it was just such a great, great trip. It, it was so fascinating to me how everybody just bonded, you know? And I think that’s just, … I, I always say, , I attract the best women.

Beautiful women, too. But I attract the best women. And so everybody just meshed. A, a, lot of people extended their trip. They had an extra day, and then some people changed their plane flight so that they could stay, and it was just amazing. And I’m so happy that we did that trip, and I’m gonna plan another one.

I got a couple things that I’m working on that I’m gonna finalize today. Hopefully today is the day. But I would really like to do something in January, so be on the lookout for that, because you won’t wanna miss it. Just the coming together, and it was like we’d all known each other for 20 years, you know, and it was like our annual girls’ trip.

I know that for me, I expanded so much, and I felt so great, and so it definitely made me realize that, , live events, it’s so important, I think, for us to get together live and to have that experience together. So anyway, what I wanted to talk to you today about, though, is I kinda have a, a short little thought, an idea, experiment that I have been running.

You know, it’s interesting, because, , in the last episode, I talked about how I had started dating, and I don’t, I’m not gonna be coming in here talking about dating every time. I, have to tell you that I resisted it for a long time, and what I’m recognizing is how much I have learned about myself in the last couple months of doing this, and how much I have grown, really, and how much I was able to notice old patterns and actually shift so that I know I have healed, because I noticed it and was able to move out of it.

And so there’s a little lesson in here that I have learned that I think might be helpful for you, and so that’s what I wanted to kinda share today. If you’ve been here for a while, you know that I- tend to say that relationships are a mirror, right? Every single one. Our friendships, our, coworkers, with our kids, you know, with the lady who does your hair, like the person that you’re standing next to in line.

All of this is a mirror about how we actually feel about ourselves, and we can learn a lot about ourselves from any one of those experiences. You know, I, I think some mirrors show us things that other mirrors couldn’t show us. And so I think that’s why this experiment has been so important for me on my journey.

And you know, I, I have been coaching for years. I mean, 2012. A long time. And I have done the work. I know myself very well. And I noticed when I started dating that there was this pattern that was sort of, I don’t know. I- if you had asked me, “Do you have that pattern?” I would say, “No, I can do, I can do it.

It’s n- I’m fine. I’m fine.” But what I recognized was that that pattern was so much in the middle of who I was that I actually couldn’t see it until I had the mirror to show me. , And so I’m gonna talk a little bit about that, because I think that every relationship that I had was old enough that the pattern was, like, already kind of baked in.

And so, you know, like when you walk into your living room, like you don’t notice the furniture ’cause it’s just been there. But dating put me in like a brand new living room. You know what I mean? With people who knew nothing about me, , no history, no established roles. Like nobody had an expectation of me that was already in, in place.

And I think that created this like blank space. And I watched myself do something within, you know, the first 24 hours of finding somebody, that I liked. Now- I’m, I wanna say, I’m gonna say I liked loosely… I, I, I liked everybody is my point. I liked everybody. I, met some really, really nice people.

But here’s what happened, is that I over-functioned. I think that’s the easiest way to say it. I met somebody, and I immediately started doing the work of the relationship. , I would carry the conversation, I would ask really good questions. I kept saying, “Everybody’s so nice, I could talk to them for hours.

And then I was like, wait, maybe that’s me. Maybe that’s me. , Not that they’re not nice, not that they can’t hold a conversation, it just made me realize maybe there’s something I’m doing here that is over-capacitating to, , an extent. You know? I, I found, , if something got awkward or if I noticed something made somebody uncomfortable, , I would immediately kind of smooth it over.

I, I would handle everything. I would suggest a plan when there wasn’t a plan. , I would explain myself so thoroughly, I would over-explain what I meant or what I was trying to say so there wouldn’t be any confusion. And what I noticed was that I was doing my half, right, my half of the relationship, and I did that really fast and I did it really well because I’m good at it, but then I also did his half.

And I think that there was this part where I felt like I had a connection with somebody, but looking back now, I realize that it was just me, , over-capacitating the whole thing. Like, when I look back at this, , I’m gonna use the word relationship, but we’re gonna air quote that. , I went out with somebody, , I don’t know, five or six times, and I realized I was doing my half and his half.

And that I built that whole thing. I have no idea what that guy would have built with me because I never left him any room to build anything with me. I would reach out. I would suggest things. And so here’s what I wanna do, is I think I wanna sort of name this thing because I think a lot of you are gonna recognize yourself in this.

You know, I, I am very good at walking into somebody’s complicated situation, understanding it, finding a solution for things, and making it better. , That is real. That is my gift. I can… It’s almost like a cosmic thing. When somebody explains to me what’s going on with them, I feel like I’m hovering above it, and I can see the, all the levers.

And so if somebody hands me a mess with a lot of moving parts and a lot of feeling attached to it, I can sort it out. I can see what actually is going on. I, have built a business on this, right? But somewhere, a long time ago, I think I must have decided that that was my value. Not like one of my qualities, but that was my value.

, That was the reason someone would want me around, like the, the price of my cocktail or whatever And I think once you believe that, you carry it into every living room you walk into, right? Every situation that you find yourself in. And so I would walk in kind of scanning for how I could be of value.

And you find the thing that you can be useful for, and then you get to work because you know being useful is how you have always understood that you belonged in that room. And I have been doing that for, like, my whole life and calling it, like, being a good person, I think. I have really evaluated, what does it mean to be a good person?

And, you know I, I think I am a good person. I think I am generous. I’m not gonna, you know, pretend that I’m not or not want to be. But I recognized in this interaction with this person that some of this was a bid. Some of it was me t- trying to buy my way in to closeness with someone. And, and the problem with buying your way in…

And you may be looking at your marriage or relationship with people at work or whatever and go, “Oh my God, I do this. , I over-capacitate in order to feel like I’m enough to be in this situation.” And, , so I think that the problem with that is simply that , if you get close to people by being useful, you can never stop being useful.

You have to continue to earn that spot, and you have to stay necessary, and that is not being close with someone in a relationship. That’s a job, and I don’t want to have a job with the people that love me. And so I recognized… And like I said, I went out on a bunch of different dates with a bunch of different people, and then I went out with one person, , I don’t know, four or five times.

Couple weeks. It was just a couple weeks. And I noticed that I was doing this. And so as I was learning about other people and going out with other people, I started doing something a little bit different. And I wanna describe this ’cause I wanna be really careful about how I say it And because the shift was important, but there- it’s also nuanced, right?

So I did not show up as being less, okay? So I’m not saying, , you need to dummy yourself down, or if you have a superpower, just keep that hidden. I’m not saying withhold your superpowers from people you love, . And I’m not saying that I wanted to pretend to be less, less interested in people than I was.

I- and I’m, and I wasn’t trying to make anybody chase me., I’m 55 years old. I, I didn’t have the energy for some big strategy. But I wanted to lean back, and I wanted to do my part and stop. So I am still funny. I’m still warm. , I will still point out the thing that nobody else will say. I can still be generous when I feel like being generous.

But I don’t need to m- make myself less capable, but I need to stop automatically spending all of my capacity. Does that make sense? So I don’t need to make myself less capable. I need to stop automatically spending all of my capacity. The capacity stays. I just stopped spending it before anyone asked.

I just stopped spending it as a deposit to be wanted. So this is what it kinda looked like in practice. In practice, it looks like leaving when it’s time to leave. If I don’t make the plan, does he make the plan? If I don’t carry the conversation, like every message back and forth, I didn’t have to ask a question.

I didn’t have to… I could just say… I could just answer what they asked me and give them enough information that they could keep the conversation going. I- I didn’t wanna explain myself. I just said, “This is what it is,” and then I let them see if they leaned forward. Do they get curious? Do they ask me about themselves?

If I don’t smooth over an awkward moment, what do they do? Can he sit in an uncomfortable thing for a few seconds like a grown man? If I don’t tell him, this was the big one. One man asked me, “Well, what is it you’re looking for?” And I, I said, “Clarify what you mean.” And he said, “Well,, what kinds of things do you like?”

And I said, “I am l- liking learning about who you are and how you show up. I’m not gonna tell you exactly how I wanna be treated. I wanna see how you would treat me, and then we’ll know if it’s a match And, , I’m not gonna tell some man that I need you to open the door for me, but I’m gonna choose the one that does it.

I’m not gonna tell you that, “Hey, yeah, great, let’s go out. I need you to plan everything.” I’m just gonna choose the man that plans everything. I’m not gonna say, “You need to tell, that I look pretty. Don’t you think I look pretty?” I know this is so silly. Tell me I’m pretty and feed me.

But I, I… This person I went out with, like, five times or whatever could- never said anything, like, complimentary to me, and I realized I needed that. And so I’m not gonna tell you that I need that. In the beginning, I’m trying to figure out if you’re the right match, but I’m gonna just notice, and I’m gonna pick the one that does tell me.

So I think that leaning back let me learn more about people and who I wanted to invest my energy into, and made me realize that spending time with me… Now, this one’s crazy. If you are an over-capacitator like me, what I’m about to say is gonna make you so uncomfortable, but that me just being- spending time with you, was the payment.

D- do you know what I mean? , That was enough. , I am joyful, and fun, and curious, and I don’t have to fix your problem. I don’t have to pay for the drink or plan the date. I can show up, and that is my value, is me, is my presence. You get to spend time with me. This shift is so insane. Even as I’m saying it, I’m like, that feels weird.

What’s your value? , It can’t possibly just be that you just be you. But yeah, it can, ’cause the right person will be delighted in that. I have a man that I’m going out with, , the third time, and I’m, I’m not over-capacitating. I’m letting him show up, and he is. There’s another guy I’m going out with for a second time.

I’m not over-capacitating. He’s showing up. He’s consistent. They’re messaging me every day. One of them said, “I don’t want you to worry your pretty little head about it. I’ll take care of it.” I said, “Yes, sir. I will just lean back.” And I think that this is a really hard thing for women who are accomplished. I think it’s a really hard thing for women who have been taught that their value is serving others and taking care of everything.

So I think this is the thing that I, want you to hear, ’cause I really didn’t expect this, is that when I left empty space, men filled it.

Not all of them. Some of them left it empty right back, and that was really useful information, and then I moved on without any drama about it. Unmatch. Some of them stepped in, made the plan, made the reservation, followed up when they said they would, noticed something that I mentioned once, some little small thing, and remembered it, took care of things, wanted to take care of things.

And, you know, at first this felt really uncomfortable. , What do I do? , Should I offer something? Should I make this easier for him? Should I pay the bill? Should I say something, I don’t know, magical? I don’t know. Should I try to fix something? But nothing. That was the answer. Nothing. You do nothing.

, You say thank you, and you enjoy it. And there are men out there this whole time who wanted to take care of things, and I just never gave anybody the chance, because I was already doing it long before they ever even got there. I wasn’t attracting the wrong people, but I was crowding out the right people.

And I don’t think that our world teaches women necessarily how to receive. , We get taught, how to give until it, it is painful, and then we call that, , a vow or you know, loving. We get taught to be the capable one. We get a ton of praise for it. People tell you, “You’re so strong. You’re amazing.

I don’t know how you do it.” And that’s good for, , you know, I don’t know, 10 years. Then, then all of a sudden you recognize that receiving is its own skill, and that most of us are really terrible at it. I mean, watch yourself next time someone gives you something, even, , a compliment. “Oh, gosh, no. Oh, this old thing?”

Right? “Oh my God, I have so many wrinkles. No, God, that don’t even… I need a haircut. My nails, oh, thanks, but God, they… I gotta get them done.” Right? A compliment, a favor, dinner, help with something that you didn’t ask for help with. , Do you deflect? Do you immediately balance the books? Do you say, “Oh, you didn’t have to do that,” or do you start planning how you’re gonna pay it back before they even finished doing what they were doing?

I don’t think it’s being humble. I think that’s discomfort. I think receiving makes us feel like we owe, and owing feels dangerous. And so we wanna,, clear up that imbalance immediately, and then get back to a safe ground where we’re the giver, and I think that gives us a sense of control. So what if you just sat in it?

, Just for a second, just let it be uncomfortable and don’t fix it. I found this was so difficult until it wasn’t., At first I was like, “Oh, you don’t have to open the car door.” The guy, , you know, shut the car off, ran around the car door. , You don’t have to do that. But, but you can. But you can, and I found that nice and charming.

And then soon I found I was able to really lean back and let people show up, and they’re showing up in a totally different way than I have ever experienced before. It wasn’t because there weren’t men around me who wanted to show up. It’s because I was crowding it out. So I wanna bring this all the way home, ’cause I know a lot of you aren’t dating on the dating apps, and I know that.

But maybe you’re in a marriage and you can’t figure it out, or you’re in a friendship that just feels really lopsided, or you’re in a job and n- you’re carrying the team or a family where you have always been the adult, you know, since you were 10 years old. So here’s what I wanna say to you. If you’ve been over-functioning in something for 20 years, you don’t currently know what it is. You know what it is with you holding both ends of it. You don’t know what it is. You’ve been managing the calendar, and the moods, and the extended family, and the temperature of the room, and you have been doing that really well.

, You soften things so that he doesn’t get mad, and you anticipate things before it even happens. You’re brilliant. You’re so brilliant, people don’t even know half the stuff that you take care of, ’cause you do it before there’s a, a missing piece, before there’s loss. You do your half and their half, and you call that a relationship.

So when you sit down to ask yourself the big question of, “Can this relationship work? Do I want this? Is this enough?” You are asking about a truth that you likely built, and you cannot get a true answer from that place. So I’m not telling you to stop doing everything, and just see if ever- anybody notices, right?

That’s … would likely be more uncomfortable for you, ’cause you’d have a messy kitchen and a, a cluttered household, right? I’m telling you something much smaller and a little bit harder, and that is to pick one thing, one thing that you always do that actually isn’t yours. You know, that something that only gets done because you do it, and then not getting it done would be uncomfortable, and then just don’t do it.

Don’t announce it. Don’t make a big production. Don’t make it a lesson. Don’t turn it into a conversation about how you’re the one who does every goddamn thing, ’cause we know you do. ‘Cause I promise the conversation’s already happened. You’ve already done that, and it didn’t work. So just leave it empty, and then watch, not, not to catch anybody, but just to see them, to actually get clear eyes, to see what’s happening.

‘Cause you’re over-capacitating if you’re anything like me. You’re over-capacitating, and you think that’s real. But the truth is, if you just stay in your lane, you can see what they’re willing to do, and those are different, and your body knows which one you do regularly, so it’s gonna feel a little uncomfortable.

And maybe they pick up the slack. That happens more than you might think, and it’s great when it does. We had someone the other day in group, two people, one person in particular, that was like, “I can’t believe how different my marriage is when I created space. I can see how much he shows up for me.” Maybe he doesn’t.

Maybe it just sits there. But either way, you’re gonna learn something true, and I think that we are all pretty starving for something true. And, the last thing I’ll say, and, this is the part that I’m still practicing, is that it’s okay for you to just bring the joy. You don’t have to arrive with a solution.

You don’t have to be the most useful person in your family. You don’t have to earn your seat by fixing anything or anybody. You can show up funny. You can show up interested. You can show up delighted by the thing you saw, , during your day. You can order something good on the menu and just be a pleasure to be around and let that be the whole thing.

I know this is hard ’cause you’re like, “Well, I’m not going out on dates. I’m at home, and he does not see me as funny or interested or delighted by me.” But what if you felt that way about you? What would be different? ‘Cause that is enough. It’s always been enough. I don’t think there’s a ledger that we think there is.

I, I think 20 years ago if somebody had said, “Don’t you worry your pretty little head about it, I got it.” Somebody said that to me yesterday. “Just show up.” And I would’ve been like, “I can handle it. I can do it. I’m a feminist.” But now I’m like, okay, I’m not gonna worry my pretty little head about anything.

I’m just gonna get a cute outfit on and , go up and be joyful and happy and have fun, and enjoy the conversation, and spend time with somebody. I know that that’s not necessarily real life, it’s only a second date. But I think when we stop spending all our capacity on everybody else, we get it back for ourselves.

So everything is teaching us something, including all the things that you swore you were done with. I, I was done with dating. I said it out loud on the show. And it turned out to be the one mirror that could show me a thing that I had been carrying my whole adult life. You, you might already know where you do this.

You might n- even know as soon as I started the podcast, , might have been like, “This is what I do.” You know, there’s a specific moment in your week where you do something where you over-capacitate, and you don’t have to do anything about that right now, but just catch yourself when you start reaching and see if you can let yourself come back down and receive.

Maybe it’s when a friend says, “Oh my God, you’re such a great friend.” And you go, “Aw, you’re a great friend.” You’re not valuable because you’re useful. You’re valuable because you’re you, and anybody worth having close to you already knows that. And I think that is how you live a big life. All right. All right, everyone.

I love you so much. I’ll see you guys next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

 Hello, everyone. Hi, welcome to the show today. I am getting ready to leave for our trip to Belize. I just dropped Dean Martin off at kitty camp, and he was so, he was so unhappy. He made a little sound I’ve never heard before when I put him in his carrier. Poor little guy. He’ll be okay, but it’s the longest he’s ever been at kitty camp, and he likes Camp Kitty, I think it’s called.

I think he likes it, but it is painful, right? To be without our babies So I wanna say that Joy and I recorded a really, a pretty long episode earlier in the week, and– or it was, like, the end of last week we recorded. And, you know, I had this whole plan. I was gonna,, explain the metamorphosis that had happened in my life over the past eight weeks.

And then, you know, we recorded, and then I went in to, , listen to a couple parts and, , make some edits that I wanted to make sure were made before, you know, Joy went in to produce the episode. And I just was like… First of all, it was kinda hard– We were just talking back and forth, and I had no idea how many times I said “like” until I listened to that episode.

It was hard to follow, honestly. And then, you know, I, I get that sometimes it can be fun, you like to hear other people’s stories, but, , it’s gotta matter to you, and I just was like, “What’s the purpose in this for anybody else?” , At the end of the day, it felt kinda self-serving to talk for 45 minutes about whatever, whatever I went through.

So I thought, let me give you, , the really brief, short, long and short of it, as they say, and kinda give you the rundown, and then get to the point, ’cause there is a point. There’s something that I do wanna say, and I think it’s– I’m still thinking through it, but I think it’s kinda like a magical thought.

So, so let’s just say here, let, let us begin here. The last six to eight weeks, I think, I have felt like I was really passing through something. You know, I think my transformation, this particular one that has just been closed, I think this loop opened in 2020. I really do. It’s– In 2020, when I was really– Towards the end of 2020, when I was like, uh, I had been wanting to leave my marriage for, I mean, since the week after we got married, and I was finally like, “I think I’m gonna figure this out.”

Like, “I’ve got to figure this out.” And that sort of opened this portal. Now, , as you know, I left, I came back, we tried to work things out. I left again, and I’ve been gone, and I’m, been divorced, and I’ve lived in my apartment now for, you know, almost a couple years. So the, so, uh, you know, you would think, well, that whole chapter is closed, but no.

But no. It, I feel like- There had been so much growing and healing over the past couple years, shifting who I am internally, and I think that this kind of finalized, like the final push through the birth canal, when I went to Florida. So you guys have heard me talk about this trip. I’m not gonna go into this trip anymore.

But, you know, I went to Florida. I came back, there was a lot of grief ’cause I was like, “I don’t know where I’m supposed to be, what I’m supposed to do.” Then a few weeks later, I went to Vermont. That was a really hard trip for me, and I knew that I had healed so many things because I could see the patterns., I could see in my family of origin how they operated and why I chose the things that I did, and why I lived the way that I lived for so long, and why my marriage, components of it that were obviously not healthy, felt kind of okay to me. And when I was with my family, I was like, “Oh, this is why.” And that was a really hard thing.

And again, grief, because I came back and I was like, “Oh my gosh, it’s not what I thought. It’s what I s- just saw.” And I think that in all of that, you know, the way that I communicate with, with all of you through the podcast or through Instagram is very real and comes from a place where I’m very authentic, I think that would be the word to use But I was shaky ground, so I didn’t know how to show up, and so I sort of withdrew.

It’s not that I don’t know who I am or I… It was just like something had shifted, and I didn’t quite understand what that was yet. So this is where we are. So here’s the thing that I want to really talk about, which is that I went on the dating apps and because I know so many of you wanna know the deets on that, so let me kind of…

I wanna tell you that if you listen to the birthday episode, we talked about how I went on the dating apps, maybe, maybe it was like March or something, and I, I was like, “Ew, no.” I was on them for like 24 hours. I asked for a refund. And so it just– I wasn’t there yet. Then I went through this whole metamorphosis, and I was like, “You know what?

I’m, I, I have a really nice life. I feel really good about where I am. I’m really happy. I, I know who I am. I have things to share. It would be fun to have somebody that I could do fun things with, like to share my life and to see what their life was like.” Like that all started to sound fun to me. And so one night, I, I didn’t tell anybody, and I just was like, “I’m gonna do this,” and I did it very intentionally.

I went on Hinge. I also went on Bumble because one of my girlfriends was like, “Oh, I loved Bumble.” But Bumble, you have to make the first move. Like that’s the thing is that women make the first move, and I can see how that could be really appealing, but that’s not what I wanted. Like I have spent a lifetime over-capacitating with men.

I have spent a lifetime being the one, like to reach out and to do the things and to blah, blah, blah. And I don’t wanna do that anymore. Like I just don’t wanna be that, and I just thought if I start that way, like that’s sort of how it goes. I remember years ago, my former husband said to me, I was doing something in the kitchen, and he said, “It’s about time you start acting like a wife.”

And I lost my ever-loving mind because I was like, “If I could have a husband, I wouldn’t have to act like the husband. I could act like the wife. But since I have to be the husband, I, you know, I’m not spending a lot of time in the kitchen.” So- When I’m looking at these apps, I’m like, “How do I want this to go, and what is it that I’m– that I want right now?”

And I really wanted somebody to reach out to me. So, so I got on Hinge, and I did my profile pretty thoughtfully, I think. I tried to give information about myself instead of being vague. You know, some people will put like, “Dating me is like going to get coffee. Something that makes me happy is good coffee.”

And I, you know, I really wanted to be intentional and put the energy out there that was right. And so, you know, to make that long story short, I, I met several people. I went out for drinks one night with somebody that was really nice. Not my guy, but like super nice. I met really nice people, and I think that sort of surprised me in a way, and might be my age.

You know? If I– maybe if I was dating like a 30-year-old or a 40-year-old, which I just… I think I put my limit, like my age limit, and you can do it like so it’s a hard stop at like… Maybe I put even like 51. Like I was not into dating younger people. Uh, I think my age limit up was much higher. I think it was like maybe 69 or something.

I went to a bar that’s here by my house at the Four Seasons that I like. So, so I’m gonna get to this. So they said, “Where do you wanna meet?” Okay? I had a lunch date and they said, “Where do you wanna meet?” And then I had a– met for drinks someplace else. “Where should we meet?” I don’t understand… And again, here I am, so I’m like, “Okay, I– you asked me, so I don’t know what you want.

Like, I don’t know what your budget is. I don’t know where you wanna bring me. I don’t know what you’re thinking. You’re, you’re the one that invited me.” So I h- I had a brain cramp around that every single guy. And I thought, “You know what? Maybe it’s really hard right now to be a guy and to be like, ‘I, uh, I wanna give her a choice.'”

But what would’ve been great, I think, is if somebody had said, “Great,” like, “Eight o’clock Saturday,” or seven… Eight o’clock. Come on, we all know I’m in bed by eight o’clock. Like, 4:30. “4:30 Saturday. Would you like to meet me here or here?” Like, that would’ve been great, you know? I, I just– I didn’t wanna be picking.

Um, and then with some people it was like, “What about this? What about that?” “Okay, well, that doesn’t work. What about th-” I just was like, “Can you please make a decision?” So, so I’m just observing, you know? I’m just noticing. But I met really nice people, and I had a nice time. There wasn’t anybody that was, like, a real, , love connection, I think, for those first,, four or five dates.

A couple people asked me out on a second date. I found it very interesting the things that people shared with me. I had really good conversations with everybody. , I talked with just about everybody for, , a couple hours, and, uh, and they asked questions of me, too. It wasn’t just me holding the conversation.

So that felt good. And it was interesting to me, , what people wanted to share. , I, I think, you know- One person told me what their salary was or how much money they made. They owned their own business. Um, and I thought that was just, , an interesting thing to tell me. It, it was a lot, and I think that was, like, they were basically telling me that’s what they were– had to offer, which I get that.

You, you have… Like, there’s no, I, like, I’m totally fine with that. Like, you, you might offer humor, you might offer resources, you might offer, you know what I mean? Look, whatever it is. But that wasn’t as important to me because of where I am in my life, I think. It’s not unimportant. I want somebody that can do the same kinds of things that I can do, but I d- you know, you, how many millions you make a year isn’t as important to me.

, But I’m happy you’re successful, and that’s great. So, so that was an interesting thing. , I had somebody ask me if I was a gold digger, which no man with money will ever ask you if you’re a gold digger, by the way. They see it as something they have to offer. So I was just observing, you know? I was just observing.

So here’s the thing, and here’s where I kinda landed with this, and this is sort of what the, the message I think that I wanted to share with that, is that in all of that, what I realized was that I didn’t have some end game. You know, if I had been 25 and some guy told me he made $13 million a year, I might’ve been like, “That, I could have a, a totally different life than I had growing up.”

, That would be a different life, right? And I, I’m not looking to get married. , I will never get married again. There will never be a universe where I get the government involved in my relationship ever again. Now, I’m not, also not looking to live with somebody. That’s just not where I am.

Would I ever live with somebody? Maybe. , I see, like, Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell, maybe that could be… But again, and, and as I’ve said in many, many other podcasts, if you ever find out that I am dating somebody, that I’m like, “This is, this is the, my guy,” they are a freaking unicorn. And if I ever decide to live with somebody, that’s like a super unicorn, right?

That’s like a, this– That man will be, have been therapitized for decades, you know? A feminist, liberal, like, I mean, all the things, right? So, with all that said, I, I’m not thinking that’s what I’m gonna find. What I’m looking for, the end game, is actually right now. The– I’m not looking for a husband. I’m not looking for a role to fill.

I’m actually looking, is there joy and fun right now? , That’s the metric. And this might seem, , super obvious, but that wasn’t how I ever operated before. And so- I think that if I had, then I probably would have had a better experience in relationships. I have historically spent a lot of time on potential.

Maybe you’re there with me. But there’s no more, like, do the, does he have potential? I don’t care about potential ’cause I’m too old for that. You have to show me what you got right now. And if right now is fun, if right now feels like I’m having a good time, if right now is adding to my life, that’s it.

That’s the end game. I’m here. I’ve arrived. It’s al- it’s already here. And it changes, takes the pressure off it in a lot of ways. Now, I learned a lot about myself over the past three weeks because I noticed that there were times where I was over-capacitating, where I thought– Where I was starting, not where I thought, ’cause there was no thinking.

But where I noticed I was leaning forward, like I was trying to drive the way things were going. And it took me, , about a week probably of, of talking with one person in particular where I was like, “Oh, I can see that I’m doing that. Where, where is that coming from?” And I did some work on it. , I was like, “What is that?”

Because that’s not– I don’t wanna replay stuff. And I know that I’ve healed it because I noticed it, right? I noticed it really pretty quickly, and then I was able to shift. Now, I got really, really lucky because the person that I was talking to was unfazed by that. They just stayed really steady in their lane and didn’t, wasn’t influenced by that, which was a relief, and made me realize that I don’t have to over-capacitate.

I can just be, and I can just, m- like, be in the right now, and is the right now good and joyful and happy, and yes. And so that’s all I need to know. So there, I’m already there. Done. So, , that made it so much easier. So that is my update, and that’s a little thought of, , if there was no end game, would you like the way your life was right now?

Would you choose it? Would this be something that you would be like, “That’s a match, and I’m gonna stay in that”? Whether it’s your job or your friendships or your romantic relationship or any of that stuff. Is it a match? All right. That is the update for this week. I hope you guys have a great week. I will, I will see you next week.

We’ll have a Belize update when I get back next week. So thanks so much for being here. I love you guys so much. I’ll see you then.

 Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. This week, you’re getting this episode this week. I know on the, on Instagram, if you follow on Instagram, I was going to answer a bunch of questions, and that episode will be next week. Next week I’ll be in Belize for the retreat, and that’s the episode that will drop on Thursday.

So look out for that. Joy and I just had… We had issues scheduling. It became like a chasing each other all day, and so I thought, “You know what? I, I have another thought,” something that we talked about in group. So I wanna get to this. Okay. So there’s this moment, I think, when we stop orbiting somebody else.

I’m gonna explain what I mean here. But it’s, it’s when you stop, , checking their mood before you make a decision, or when you stop thinking about how they’re gonna perceive you before you get dressed. Does anybody else… Am I the only one that does this? Or if you cook. You know, you’re cooking dinner, and you’re like, “Uh, are they gonna like this?”

I know that some of this stuff might sound like courtesy, but I wanna… Just hang with me here, because I wanna, , uh, like sort of separate this out, because I think there is a moment that this awareness happens. If you leave your partner or you’ve made a big change with how you experience your partnership, I think that there is a moment where this orbiting becomes really disorienting, and so disorienting that you’re starting to recognize that there’s, , this piece of you inside here that is…

, you’re not even quite sure where she is. You, you have, like, pieces of her, but she is really contorting herself. You know what I think of, like, when I, when I think of this, is like, you know if you have a cat and then you have, like, a weird shaped item? And they get in the weird shaped item, and th- they’re still a cat, but they’re not really, like, cat shaped anymore.

I remember when I moved into my apartment a couple years ago, you know, after my divorce, and I’m, I’m here in my place, and I had this awareness that I didn’t check to see what somebody else was doing or wanted to do, or where I needed to be in the house, you know? I, I, I didn’t have to think about whether my dinner was gonna make the house smell like something he wouldn’t like, or I didn’t have to wonder…

I didn’t, I just didn’t have to think about anybody else. And even think about, when I put on an outfit, is this something that would be, I’m gonna say like acceptable, but hang with me as I think through this. Not like, it, not like I’m dressing like a, like a hoe, you know? But is this something that men would like?

I mean, I think we put it through a filter. You know, we talk about dressing for the male gaze or dressing for the female gaze. And there was this moment where I was in my apartment and I recognized that everything that I was doing was still orbiting other people who weren’t even there. They weren’t even in the house.

And honestly, it was weird. Because centering somebody else, even when you don’t like ’em, even when you’re tired from it, but it’s a habit. It is like a groove that you’ve worn into yourself. And I think when you stop, there is a place where that person used to be, and you have to figure out who you are when you’re not constantly thinking about somebody else.

So I wanna talk about this, and I wanna talk about it in the frame of something that has come up over and over again in our groups. And it’s really about this centering and how we center other people. It could be anybody. It could be how we center our kids’ school or school activities or everything about our lives.

And I wanna talk about why that matters so much inside a partnership. So let me back up just a little bit. I wanna name, , what I mean by, , centering. So to me, centering someone m- else means that their perspective, you know, their, their needs, maybe their mood or their comfort, becomes sort of this, like, organizing principle of your day.

So it becomes the thing that you are making little, little and big decisions around. And I don’t think it’s conscious necessarily. I think it’s usually really automatic. , You wake up, and you’re already scanning maybe for his mood or for who needs what or for what you need to do to make the day m- run smoothly for everybody else, and you’re calculating.

Like, is it a good time to say something? You know, you’re running through what you’re gonna make for dinner and whether he’ll like it, and you’re dressing for somebody else or for what you think everybody else would like or what’s popular or trending or whatever. And you’re realizing that you are making yourself smaller so that everybody else can stay the same size or even grow or expand or become who they are meant to be.

And I think we’re taught that this is love. I think that we were taught that centering the people we love is what good women do I think my mother did it. You know, my mother centered the kids for sure. She centered me and my sister. She centered my dad, for sure. , My grandmother did it. I, I think we just see it everywhere.

, This idea that a, a woman, I’m gonna say a man, shapes herself around a man, but we really can shape ourselves around just about anything, you know? It’s, it’s really the version of us that makes it our job to keep the peace and to adjust. And I think we call it, , being a good partner or sacrifice or I’m devoted to this thing.

You know, we, we call it marriage. But, but I think it’s an element of self-abandonment. And I wanna say, you might be like, “I don’t mind doing that all the time.” Maybe sometimes, but then is it conscious? And if it’s unconscious, is it truly a choice or is it you disappearing? And I think it gets a little bit tricky because self-abandonment doesn’t feel like a bad thing when you’re doing it.

, It feels safe. It feels like you’re doing a good job, you know? It feels like you’re managing things or managing a situation or, or, or keeping it all together, you know? I remember that commercial, and I know I’ve mentioned it here before, but even as a kid, I was like, “This seems fucked up.” But it was like the, um, I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never, ever let you forget you’re a man.

I’m like, look, you get, like, maybe two of those things out of three. Like, likely not. Pick one. I don’t know. But I think that there happens, , in, in our lives when we feel like what we’re doing is really being great, and marketing has taught us that, , our lives have taught us that. And then I think one day you realize that the reason you feel lonely in this partnership isn’t because you’re alone, but it’s because you lost yourself somewhere along the way, and maybe you realize that you’ve been gone for so long that you don’t actually know how to come back.

So something that comes up in our groups over and over, and a couple weeks ago we were all talking, and I had this, , moment, you know? , And when I say groups, inside the Navigate method, this is my program that helps women make the big decision on whether to stay or leave your, their marriage. You can find out more about that on our website, or you can book a call to talk to us at betsypake.com.

Okay. So- We were talking about it, and I had this thought. Now, this might be a thought y- that you’re gonna be like, “This is an obvious thought,” but the way it hit me was a little different. And I was like, men aren’t taught to de-center themselves. They are actually taught the opposite. They’re taught what we’re taught, which is to center them.

They’re taught that their perspective is the one that matters, that their needs are the most important, and that the world kind of revolves around them at, at least a, a little bit, you know? And I’m not saying all men are like this. I’m not, I’m not saying anything is absolute.

Humans are individuals, right? But I think this is a pattern, and I think when we’re socialized, and I think when we’re in the patriarchal system that we have all grown up with here, , I think it comes up, like constantly. And so you have a situation where she has disappeared, and he is centered. So she’s checking his mood.

He’s not checking hers. And she’s thinking about her, how her actions affect him, and he is really not thinking about how his actions affect her Or if he is, it, it doesn’t come off in the same way, right? , She’s making sure he’s okay, and he doesn’t think to ask.

And then she tries to communicate. She tries to say, “Hey, you know, this thing happened that hurt me. , This thing doesn’t feel good.” And he genuinely can’t see it from her perspective. It’s not because he’s a jerk. It’s not because he’s a terrible person. It’s because he is so centered in his own experience., His experience is the experience. His way of seeing things is the way. And so she’s trying to explain something from, , the outside looking in, and he’s looking from the inside looking out, and those are, like, two totally different vantage points, where you just don’t see the same horizon, you know?

And I think that’s when resentment gets built. It’s not necessarily from what he did or from the fact that he can’t see what he did or from the fact that she has to explain it or, or, even that when she does explain it, he might not understand, because he’s not built to think that way. You know, she’s exhausted, because now she’s also managing herself.

She’s also trying to translate her experience into some sort of version of language that he can understand. We talk about this all the time in group, like, what’s his reality? How can we get to the other vantage point so that you can explain and articulate yourself in a way that feels good, ?

That, honors where you are, but also he could, if he was reaching for it, could find you in that. And it’s really about, it’s n- uh, w- when we were talking in group, I was like, “You know, I, I don’t even know that it is about… It’s about communication, but it’s also about trying to get him to de-center for just long enough to see her- And most of the time, I, I don’t think men can do it, and it’s not because they don’t love us, it’s, it’s because they weren’t ever taught to or socialized to.

You know how… I remember when my son was little and we had this, , toy that was like a babbler. It would talk in, , different languages so that those patterns were formed in his head so if he wanted to, to learn another language later on, those neural pathways had been created, you know? Neural pathways get pruned, so it didn’t matter.

It didn’t matter. But that was the idea of it, right? And so it was the idea of if I could teach another way of seeing things, then seeing things another way could become easier Okay, so when I moved into my apartment, I’m there in my apartment. I have, uh, I have been, like, free of this dynamic where I have to center somebody else for the first time, , in decades.

In decades, right? ‘Cause I feel like I’ve lived with somebody or had a partner or whatever forever, or had a kid. You know what I mean? There’s always somebody. And so here I am, my kid’s an adult, lives on his own. I’m here in my apartment. I’m all moved in. My stuff is here. I have no pet. At that point, Dean Martin was not, had not moved in.

And Dean Martin’s the cat, for anybody new. So Dean Martin had not moved in, and so now here I am, and I am free from that dynamic for the first time in so long. And you would think that that would feel amazing, and I think it does, like, in moments. But mostly, it started to feel like I don’t know who I am.

And I do this work, but being alone shifted something, because I spent a long, long time centering somebody else, so long that I don’t actually know how to make a decision that’s just for me without even, thinking about them. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to not even be thinking about them.

And it, it took me a minute to realize, oh my God, why am I thinking about that? Like, why am I doing that same thing? And then I realized, I started thinking about, well, like, what about my son? I wonder what he’s doing for dinner. What is he w- like, j- same thing, but just with a different person. I think I started doing it a little bit with my friends.

I started just, , checking with people. , Before I know what I wanna do, I wanna see what everybody else is doing. And then I realized, like, this isn’t even about my former partner. It’s about me. It is about a pattern that is so deep in my bones that I am just gonna keep doing it until I consciously, repeatedly choose something different.

And so I had to start really asking myself a question. So instead of, like, what does everybody else need or what does everybody else want, I started asking, and I, I started asking this deliberately, even if I didn’t notice. Like when I put my outfit on, sometimes I would put it on, and then I’d be like, “Eh, I don’t know that…

Like, people are gonna think this looks dumb.” Again, centering other people, right? So I would ask, like, “Is this the choice that’s best for me? Like, is this something that makes me happy? Do I feel good about this?” And I know that sounds really simple, but when you’ve spent, , your whole life… And women, we are- We are, I wanna say created.

We’re not created to do that, but we are taught from, m- you know, taught from a very young age to do that. So when you’ve spent your whole life centering other people, asking yourself that question feels crazy. It feels really crazy. And I started doing it with like small things, but I wanted to make it like a repetition.

So like what do I want? I remember in my partnership if I made like eggs, my partner didn’t like that because he didn’t like how the egg smelled, and so there would be a lot of thoughts about that that were shared with me. And so I would think like, “I’m gonna make eggs. Is anybody coming over?” Nobody, nobody was coming over.

Like I had nobody to come over. But I, that’s what I would think. Instead of , “What do I feel like? Do I feel like eggs?” Or you know, whatever, whatever kind of eggs I wanted. Like is that what I want? Instead of , “Does this outfit feel good? Do I feel happy in this?” I would think “Oh, this makes me look like I have no waist.”

Who cares? Like who cares? And so I started noticing all the ways that I was centering people, and the ways that I was still performing a version of myself in certain situations. And I think it’s interesting because we think, and I often, and I’ve even said it on this podcast like years ago, like if there was just no people, I would be great.

But then I lived alone and there was no people, and it wasn’t great. It was, it was interesting. It was the way I was still afraid to say no. The way I was still checking with some outside source before I made a decision so I wouldn’t rock the boat. It was weird. Eight months. Eight months is how long it took me before I noticed that I wasn’t doing that, and it was like a moment where I was like, “Oh my God, I just made that choice and didn’t think anything of it.”

Eight months before I could make a decision just because it was good for me without feeling something about it. And, some days I still catch myself doing it. I talked with a girlfriend recently, and I said about how I was getting ready to go on a date. I know we’re gonna talk about that next week on the podcast.

I was getting ready to go on a date, and I put on an outfit, and then I thought, “This is not an…” I, I… It was twofold things that I thought. “This is not an outfit you wear on a date, and this makes me look gigantic,” because it was all, like, big, roomy, th- flowy dress, or whatever the heck it was. I don’t even remember.

And I got mad at myself because I was doing this scanning thing, and I was like, “God, I haven’t even been dating b-,” you know what I mean? “But a couple days and I’m already back to centering other people?” And I talked to a friend of mine, my friend Heather, and my friend Heather said, “It’s okay to center them sometimes.

, That can be a choice. It’s okay to dress for the male gaze sometime. It’s okay to dress for the female gaze sometime. It’s… Like, that might feel good to you.” And it was a w- odd permission that I think I needed. Being in this space of like, “Oh, hell no” for so long w- you know, in my own process, it, it was interesting to me because I feel like when I show up in, in coaching and group, I’m so open, like, what feels g- like, there is validity on both sides, but when it came to myself, it was interesting, you know?

So it’s okay sometimes, but we want to be conscious of it, right? So let me kinda map out… Let me do it this way. So I wanna map out sort of what, l- like, when you’ve been centering somebody else for years and years and years. Here’s what I think. Here’s, , the, , dynamic I think. I think first you sort of disappear.

You know? I think it… Well, I think it kind of happens. You disappear, right? A little less of your opinion here, a little less of your preference here, you know? You get smaller. You take up less space, you know? You make decisions based on what’s keeping the peace instead of what’s true for you. And then I think, in that disappearance, something happens.

I think, without realizing it, you start to resent the person that you’re centering, and it’s not because of who they are. It really isn’t, and this is why I always say this in my videos. , It’s because you’ve abandoned yourself to stay with them But perhaps it could have been okay even if you’d stayed with yourself.

So you resent that they don’t notice when you’ve gone quiet. You resent that they don’t ask why you’re not yourself anymore, or you resent that they, that they are able to just live their life centered in themselves while you’re over here like a cat trying to, , fit into a weird shaped vase, right?

And so then I think you start to collect evidence. , He did that, he did this, he didn’t notice this, you know, he didn’t… or she didn’t ask about that. And every piece of evidence that you gather kinda gets added to this, , big pile because , I think the real issue here, or the real problem, we’ll use the word problem, isn’t what he did.

The real problem is that you made yourself so small that you have become invisible, but then you’re angry at him for not seeing you. But he can’t see you, ’cause you disappeared on him. He’s not looking for you, because as far as he knows, you’re right there just adjusting and adapting like he is the center, ’cause that’s what that’s what he believes, right? So now you’re resentful, you’re trying to communicate why you’re resentful, and you’re trying to get him to see that the problem is not that he did one specific thing. The problem is this, , huge whole dynamic. And the problem is that you don’t exist in this relationship anymore. That’s the actual problem, is that you’ve centered him for so long that there just doesn’t seem to be any room for you.

And because he’s looking at you and thinking, “What are you talking about? I didn’t do anything.” Because he’s centered himself because that’s what he was taught. He can’t see the centering in this dynamic because it’s b- he– because he’s benefiting from it.

So now you’re both stuck, right? Like, you’re invisible and angry, he’s confused and defensive, and now the actual thing that’s broken, it’s the centering. It’s the disappearing. And so I think what happens is we try to fix this by having better conversations, or to explain, like, more and more and more clearly, right?

Or trying to get him to understand. And you cannot fix a centering problem by centering them more. I know that sounds so, like… You can’t fix a disappearing problem by disappearing even more. So what does it look like to actually de-center? So it looks like asking yourself, what do you actually want? And then honoring that.

I know it sounds so simple, but that’s it. It looks like you say no when you wanna say no, even if people get disappointed or grumpy. To be okay with the grumpy can be really hard. But it looks like you making a decision based on what’s right for you, not based on just what’s right for everybody else. It looks like, you know, letting other people be a little uncomfortable.

Like, being okay with that. It looks like being willing to wa- rock the boat. You know, at Thanksgiving time, I think every year, the past, , two or three years, I post this video that I did, like, three years ago about Thanksgiving, and I was going to get pie. And I was hovering over the pies, and everybody wanted pumpkin pie or apple pie.

And I want cherry pie. And I was like, everybody’s g- like, I’m not gonna buy a cherry pie for me. , I actually thought that. I’m not gonna just buy a cherry pie for… It’s the holiday. It’s my holiday, too. Like, I don’t have to lose myself just to accommodate other people. And so I think that, you know… So I bought the cherry pie, but I, I was like, even if I eat one piece and throw it out, , I’m okay with that.

It’s Thanksgiving. And I think the thing is, is that when you’re doing it You know, uh, I don’t think it feels, when you’re, like, doing it, when I say it, when you’re de-centering, I don’t think it feels selfish to anybody else. I think it feels selfish to you because you were taught your whole life that taking care of yourself is selfish and that centering other people is what love looks like.

But de-centering isn’t selfish. It’s just you coming back to yourself. And I think when we start de-centering, especially in a partnership, I think things shift. I think it shifts marriages in good ways. I think it shifts, , partnerships. I think it sh- can shift relationships at work. I think sometimes it shifts in a way that doesn’t work anymore But either way, it shifts.

Because now they’re with the real version of you, and you don’t wanna be in a relationship with somebody who’s not you. Now he’s with a woman, or she’s with a woman, who has opinions and preferences and needs, and now he’s not with someone who’s disappearing. And I think for some men, that can be really great.

I think they actually like the real version of you better. They actually wanna be with someone who’s not making themselves small. And for some men, you know, the centering was the whole deal, like having a woman who disappears so he can stay centered is really important to him, and that’s what he signed up for.

But when you de-center, then that whole dynamic doesn’t work anymore, and that is a lot of really important information that you won’t have otherwise. So I wanna say this, and I wanna be, like, honest about how I see this. And again, you know, this is my podcast, so I say what I think. You’re… You can ex- you can climb on board and like, “That makes a lot of sense to me,” but you don’t have to.

There can be parts of this that feel true to you and parts that don’t. But I think that de-centering is not a quick fix. I don’t think it’s something that you decide one day and you’re done. And the reason I say that is because I lived in an apartment by myself, and it took me eight months. Eight months before I could automatically shift to not centering.

Eight months of asking myself over and over again, “What do I want? What’s true for me? Is this the best choice for me?” And that’s just the basics. That’s just getting to the place where you’re not constantly thinking about what somebody else needs. Uh, like we’ve been learning… I mean, I was learning that for 53 years.

And I think the deeper work, the work of actually building a life around yourself instead of around someone else, I think that takes even longer. But here’s what I know. Every single time that you choose yourself, every single time you say no, every single time you make a decision based on what’s true for you, you’re de-centering.

And it gets easier, and it gets more familiar, and it starts to feel less like you’re being selfish and more like you’re actually being alive. So- If you’re thinking like, “Oh, I think if I de-centered, he wouldn’t like that.” , I’m not here to tell you to leave your marriage. , I’m not here to tell you that your husband is a problem, and I’m not here to tell you what to do.

But I am here to tell you this: if you’re resentful, if you’re angry, if you feel invisible, the first place to look is not him. The first place to look is where you’ve centered him and where you’ve disappeared. Because you can’t make a clear decision about your marriage from a place where you’ve already abandoned yourself.

You can’t think straight when you’re invisible. You can’t hear your own wisdom, your own internal guidance when you’re so busy, , listening to everybody else. So ask yourself, what is it that you really want? Not what your kids need, what… not what your husband needs, not what your friends think you should do, but what do you really want?

I remember I went with my son. He messaged me and said, “Do you wanna go get ice cream?” And I really didn’t want to, and I thought about saying no, and I decided to go anyway because he wanted to, and that made me happy. But knowing that I didn’t want to and that I was making a choice to that was conscious changed everything.

So when you know what you want, when you’re grounded in that, and then you can make a real decision, you’ll know whether you’re going to get ice cream or staying in your marriage because it is true for you, or it’s because you’ve disappeared and you didn’t feel like there was another option. Come back to yourself.

All the other stuff becomes easier after. And I think that is how you live a big life. All right, everyone, next week I’m gonna be in Belize at the retreat. I hope you come to the next retreat. We’ll have details on that soon. It’ll be sometime next year, and we will be thinking of you, especially if you reached out and said, “I’m thinking of going,” just know that I’m thinking of you and wish you were there.

But next week we’ll have a really great show with Joy and I talking about some things that have been happening with me that pushed me through a portal, a threshold, in my own experience over the past six weeks. All right, I love you guys so much. I’ll see you all next time.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

 Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. Happy after the 4th. Last week was the Fourth of July week, you know, or before the Fourth of July, I guess, and I took several days off, which was actually , a really welcome rest. And I thought I was gonna take time off from work, but , get all these projects done, and I feel like I just was really depleted.

I ended up just resting and going where the g- going where the wind took me, . And yeah, just kind of allowing my body to get what it needed, and I feel so much better coming back this week. You know, I took time off in February when I went to Morocco, but that’s really the last time that I had off.

, I’ve gone away for weekends and stuff, but that time in Morocco was so hectic. So I feel like it’s been since Christmas since I’ve just been able to, like, you know, take a nap in the afternoon and chill out. Uh, there was one day where it started… It was a nice day, and then at, like, 2:00 in the afternoon, it started raining, and I was like, “Oh, that’s my cue.”

I just, like, stripped down and got in bed in the middle of the day. I was like, “This is perfect. This is exactly what I needed.” So I did get some things done, though, and one of the things that I have been working on is the retreat that we have at the end of this month, at the end of July, , in Belize. So we are going to Belize for the Reimagined Life Retreat, and I’m super excited about it.

I have been ordering the little things that I want for the gift bags and ordered a couple things for the first five people, got some special things in their gift bag. So I ordered those things. And when I got the order in the other day, I got it from a company called Huckberry, and , it’s, , one of those companies that sends like

You know, you get stuff, and it’s, , wrapped in tissue paper, and then there’s, a little note from the founders and, , a sticker. You know what I’m talking about? And I think it’s, , an outdoorsy company. I actually knew what it was I wanted, and I Googled it, and then I came upon this company, and so I ordered it.

And I got this little card inside, and I wanna read it to you because it really got me thinking, as I li- as I like to do. Find a random thing and then overthink it. Okay, so I’m gonna read to you what this little note says that they put inside all their packages. It’s from the two co-founders, and it says We were on a rickety chairlift in Tahoe when we decided to go for it.

Looking back, we didn’t know exactly what it was, but we knew what it wasn’t: staring at spreadsheets for the rest of our lives. We quit our jobs, invested 10K each, and vowed to bring Huckberry to life, no matter what it took. And what started as a small shop run out of our apartments has grown into something way bigger than us, a brand that is equal parts store and source of in- inspiration, helping guys like us suck the marrow out of life.

I don’t know. I didn’t even look at the rest of the website. Maybe it’s menswear. , But the bags that I got, I got on that site. So here’s… It is a source of inspiration because of this little card that I thought about for a long time. And I actually, , I saved it and put it on my kitchen counter, and I was like, “I’m gonna go back to that.”

You know, h- how often do we wait to know what we want before we move? Right? How often do we tell ourselves, “I am gonna really go for it when I know exactly what it looks like,” like, when I have it all mapped out, when everything in the plan is complete and I know exactly what all the steps will be? But these guys didn’t wait for a vision.

They waited for the knowing, and that knowing was of what they were not willing to do anymore. And that’s the part that I kept thinking about, because I think a lot of times we don’t know the path, but we do know not this. And I think that is a missing piece for so many of the women that I talk to, you know?

They’ll say, “I don’t know what it is that I want.” I hear that all the time, and I kind of hate that we’re supposed to know. I don’t know. I, I have said often when we do, , goal-setting stuff or inside the Navigate method, like, every year I’ll do, , a goal-setting workshop, and I always say, , we’re not setting…

At the beginning of the year, I, I just never go, like, five-year goals. I know there probably is some data on why that could be helpful to me. I just have no idea who I’m gonna be. I don’t even know who I’m gonna be next summer, you know? And I think wanting to have all the pieces in place and to feel a level of certainty about anything in our lives is really, really valid.

And I think knowing what you don’t want, not this, is actually a okay place to start because it is information about what you’re willing to tolerate, all the things. All the things. Okay. So when I think about what happens when someone is able to say, like in our groups, like someone is able to say… And I wanna say, like, well, you know, I’m, I’m framing this around relationship just ’cause this is what we’re talking about, but , it could be anything.

This could be your work, your, you know, , your career, the way things are going. Maybe you’re in a career that you’re like, “I don’t even know what it is that I want, but it’s not this.” Oh, like, just being able to say that and have the relief, feel the relief of that acknowledgement is huge. I don’t know what I want, but it’s not this.

It’s not what I have right now. And that is not vague talking. That’s not, , wishy-washy. That can actually be a statement of fact. You know, when you say that, when you actually say it and mean it, you are telling yourself something that’s true. And whether it is intentional or not, you’re drawing a line.

And , that moment, you know, that you draw the line, you get a next level of information about yourself. And, , I know I talk a lot on here about, like, how our brains work and how we process information. And I know that our unconscious minds love metaphor. That’s why I tell so many stories on here.

But I think that when we are trying to get someplace other than where we are, but we don’t acknowledge where we are, it would be like if you got in your car and you set your GPS, but you, it, but your GPS had no idea where you were starting from. , You’d never be able to figure out how to get, even if you knew you were going to Target, if your GPS didn’t know inherently where you were, it would be very confusing and really challenging to get where you wanted to go.

And I think a lot of us think, “I have to have the entire picture before I can make any kind of move.” And I think that we think that we need to know what every step is going to feel like and look like and, and what will happen. But the truth is, the very first part of that is just knowing not this. Not this.

Because I think that’s actually how any change begins. You know, life isn’t exactly the way that we want it, right? Life isn’t you know exactly what you want, and you go out and you get it, and then you’re done, and it’s a clear trajectory, and you are making all the next steps and the next right steps and the next right steps, and things fall in line, and people come into your awareness that make it all happen with ease and flow.

I mean, that would be so freaking co- uh, sign me up for that. That’s where I’m going. That’s where, that’s where I’m going. But what life actually is, is you know what you don’t want Like that’s how it starts. You make a decision based on that, and then you move just a little bit. And as you move, things start to become clearer, right?

You push down that road for a little while. You, you rest for a little while, and then you adjust, and then you push again. It’s like a rhythm, you know? It’s not just like a straight line. And, you know, I think the Huckberry guys here didn’t know what their company would become. They just knew that they weren’t gonna spend the next 40 years, of, of their life in a, in an office watching spreadsheets.

And so they went, right? They just went, and in the going, it is in the doing, it is in the showing up day after day that they figured out what it was. And I, , I’m willing to bet the site that I didn’t even look at, I just bought the one, the one thing that I wanted from their website. I am willing to bet that things will look different in five years than they do now, in 10 years than they do now.

Maybe they’ll sell the company. Maybe they’ll be done. Maybe someday they’ll look at this and go, “Not this.” Because that’s just how life works, you know? And so here’s kind of what I want, where I wanna go with this. I wanna offer you the idea that you don’t have to know what you want yet, but I want you to know what you don’t want.

I want you to get really clear on that, on the thing that you are not willing to do anymore. Like , on the way of being that you know just doesn’t fit, you know? On the pieces of your life that feel too small or too quiet or, or there’s pieces of you that are disappearing, and you’re like, “I’m not gonna do that anymore.”

And I think that clarity is actually enough to begin. And I think when we acknowledge it, like when we say it out loud , or decide this thing for ourselves, we say, “I don’t know what I want, but I know it’s not this,” I do think it’s like making a vow to yourself. It’s not a vow that what comes next has to be exactly perfect, but it is a vow that you are not gonna keep abandoning yourself where you are.

Not in your relationship, not in your work, not in your friendship, not in your health, , not anywhere. And the vow is to stop making yourself smaller to fit into a life that was never built for who you actually are. I think that becomes the work. I think that is always the work. How do I keep choosing myself even through life, even through challenges, not knowing what comes after, but the permission starts with not this.

And if you’re listening and you have been waiting for the perfect answer or the perfect plan or the perfect moment when you’re gonna know exactly how it’s gonna go or what it is that you really want, I wanna offer you some permission to stop waiting. Just start there, and start with that line that you draw for yourself, ’cause that can be enough.

And I think when you can do that, that is how you live a big life. All right, everyone. If you have been struggling in deciding whether to stay or go in your marriage, you know, you’re always welcome to talk with us about the Navigate method. You can find the link to book a call on my website at betsypake.com or just message me on Instagram.

I’ll send you the link. We can talk, see if it’s a good fit, if we’ll be able to help you, and then, you know, you can say, “Not this, but this is what’s next.” All right. Have an amazing week. I will see you guys next week. I love you so much. Bye.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. This is gonna be sort of a shorter show, a shorter episode, and the reason… Well, the reason is ’cause there’s not a lot to talk about with this, but I did wanna give a really important update. You know, I, I had this thought and I wanted to share it with you.

It’s kind of a follow-up to an episode that I did a few months ago. If you remember, we talked about how I make big decisions, and I went through, , this whole thought process. And one of the things that I had decided to do in that episode, and I talked about it in the birthday Q&A episode, was moving to the beach, to Florida specifically.

And I think in the big decision episode, it was, I was really heavily leaning towards California. Anyway, a few days ago, yesterday maybe, I posted on Instagram that I had come to the realization about the beach and that I felt like I was sort of grieving. And a lot of people messaged me.

, I was surprised how many people messaged me and said, “Wait, are you not moving to the beach? What’s happening?” And so I thought maybe we need to do a little update, because I’m certainly not trying to hi- As you know, I tell all the things. And one of the things about this episode, and I think with my social media, and I think just with me in general, is that I tell- things in real time.

Like, uh, you know, unless it’s something painful, I wait until I’ve processed those things. But, , if it’s something that I’m actively working on, I think that’s sort of the beauty of this show, right? Is that as things are being in development, w- I share and we talk about them, and I’m noodling through things.

And so I wanna talk about this a little bit, … So let’s talk, let’s start from the episode where I talked about big decisions. And man, did I feel like California was the place. In fact, I still do. If somebody came down with a magic wand and said, “There will be no loss, only positive.

Where would you like to go?” I would absolutely say I wanna go to California. But there is loss, and there is trade-offs to things. And when I really weighed things from , like, from the place where I am standing, California felt too big. I actually questioned, is it a nervous system thing? , Is it just my nervous system saying I can’t handle that?

But I absolutely believe I can handle that. I, I don’t think it was that, and I’m, I’m gonna get into some pieces of this, ’cause it all plays out. But at that time, I, feel like there is one aspect of this that’s financial, and I am d- of the belief, and I stand by this, that financial things work themselves out.

I really don’t have a lot of fear. I probably need, I probably need a little healthier amount of fear around finances, and I just believe everything works itself out. I, , it always has, it always does. I just don’t worry about it. , I had a friend that reached out to me, , I don’t know, a month or six weeks ago, and she said, “I have accumulated some business debt, and I’m really stressing out about it.”

And I said, “Just don’t look at it.” Just don’t look at it. And she was like, “Well, no, I mean, I…” And I said, “Yeah, I mean, it, it is going to be there whether you look at it or not, but you looking at it is making you feel like crap, and when you feel like crap, you’re not gonna be creating more of it. So why don’t we just not look at it for a little while?

Or if you feel like you have to look at it, like, block off 15 minutes every night and think about it. But other than that, don’t think about it. It’s not helping you.” And that’s just been my philosophy, so I just don’t worry about stuff. I know that there are thousands and thousands of people that live in California and figure out the finances, so I know I can too.

That wasn’t my worry. There was a little bit of a worry of how I structure my business, some of the ways that I have contractors I couldn’t necessarily have in that way in California. But also there was a point of if I’m making really good s- sound decisions as a 55-year-old woman, it would be a different sound decision financially if I was a 30-year-old woman.

, My runway would be different. And when I looked at what I was would be paying in taxes, the difference in the taxes was substantial, taxes on my business. And I thought, you know, is it worth looking for other places just in case there’s another place that I would like just as well? But I wanna tell you that the financial piece really wasn’t the clincher for me, ’cause

All that stuff is figure-out-able. Here was the clincher. And I’m gonna make this as simple, , when I describe it as I can, but then we’ll dive into it a little bit, but- I grew up on the East Coast. I’ve always wanted to live on the West Coast, but I grew up on the East Coast. My father is 85 years old, and he lives on the East Coast.

All my friends from high school that are my closest friends, they all live on the East Coast, in New England, most of them. My son lives on the East Coast, and the thought, although he is great, he’s 24, he’s doing well, although the thought of moving felt really fun, the thought of being in a place where I could get home without…

Like, I could get in my car and get to any one of those people felt really important to me. And when I thought about living on the West Coast and having to… Like, you know, it wasn’t even like I’d have to buy a $1,500 plane ticket, although I would, to get home. And so if I wanted to come home every month, that would be a substantial thing to plan.

If somebody was sick or somebody needed me, you know, , to move away at, like, was a whole other layer. So this is what… So those two things are the things that I was like, “Okay, so let me just start taking a look.” And I started looking, and I’m telling you, like, when I say I st- When I say I was looking, , I wasn’t just, , looking at a map.

I was going… I, I went all the way around the coast of Florida, and I used YouTube and I used realtors’ videos. So you can find a realtor anywhere you wanna go, and they will do walking tours. They will show apartment buildings. They will show streets and parking lots. I mean, you can find, , a map of the world on YouTube.

So- I went all the way down the coast. Besides the fact that I have been to… My dad lived in Florida for 30 years. My step brothers and sisters lived in Florida. , I, I’m very familiar with Florida. , But I checked out all the little places that I might wanna look at, and what I finally decided was I really wanted to be near an airport, like a bigger airport, and I wanted to be in a place where it was a blue dot.

You know,, Florida is a red state, and it was important for me to find like-minded people that I could live near and be friends with. Now, I don’t need everybody to think just like me. That’s not what I’m saying, but I do have a trans son, and I wanted to be able to have him come visit in a place where he felt comfortable and loved and supported.

And so, you know, I finally decided. I was like, St. Pete seems like a really great place. It’s a blue dot in a red state. It’s near a big airport in Tampa. I have some people that I know that live nearby. My neighbor here in Atlanta used to live there, and we went out to lunch, and she… We pulled out the map, and she gave me all the places to look at.

And I planned that trip for my birthday to go down, and I’m, was so sure, I was so sure that I was gonna go down there that weekend and find an apartment. I planned to give notice at my apartment in just a couple days, like July 1st, so then I would move in August, ’cause I have to give two months’ notice.

And I was so sure, I bought a plane ticket to go to London. You know, I’m going to London in November, and I bought the plane ticket from Tampa. , That’s how certain I was based on all the research I had done, how I was feeling, everything. So I bought a plane ticket, and I was like, “I’m going down there.

I’m gonna find my apartment, figure out where I wanna live. I’m gonna give my notice, break my lease, and I’m gonna move in August after my retreat in Belize in July.” And I felt really good and aligned, and I went down there, and I really had the best time. I met a friend of mine down there, and I mean, I r- I really am so grateful I went down,

We went everywhere. Like, we went everywhere, drove everywhere, checked every little place out, and I just couldn’t find a place that, felt right. I felt like I was trying to fit into something that didn’t have room for who I am becoming. And I want to explain something about that, ’cause I think this is where a lot of times we get stuck, is we make a decision, you know, we make a plan, and we commit to it.

And then when we get there, or when we get close, we feel something that tells us this isn’t it. And instead of listening to that feeling, we push harder. We try to convince ourselves. We gaslight ourselves, right? And we say, like, “Well, I already decided. I already bought a plane ticket. I already told people.

I already started.” But that feeling, that is not a sign that you failed to plan right. It’s not a sign that you’re indecisive. It’s your intuition. And you know what’s the weirdest thing, is I got off the plane, I got in my rental car, and I drove right to a hotel by the airport, and I spent the night, and in the morning, I drove into St.

Pete and I called my friend Molly and I said, “This place can’t hold me.” That’s the… I know that’s a weird thing to say, but I was like, “This… It isn’t… This isn’t the place.” Like, I knew, , right away Ugh. And I tried to find other places, and it’s funny, my friend Kim was driving me around, and when we got to the marina area, I perked up a little.

She was like, “This is the first time I’ve seen you, like, really sit up and, like, look around.” But I found myself saying things like, “Oh, but in Atlanta we have that.” , I was comparing it a lot to Atlanta. And so I, I really wanted it to work, but I recognized that feeling I had, that’s the feeling that I listen to, and it’s not a sign that I failed to plan.

. It’s not a sign that I’m indecisive. It was my intuition. It was, it was me. It was the version of me that I am becoming was saying, “Hey, wait a minute. This doesn’t fit anymore.” And I think there was a version of me that really wanted to move to the beach, , for a decade.

M- I mean, more than a decade, but really hyper-focused on it for a decade. There was a version of me that had decided it, and that version was real. I, wasn’t making that up. But here’s what I think really happened over the last year, is I grew. I changed. I became a lot different, and I have a level of decisiveness that I’ve never had before.

And the version of me, the one who made the plan, she doesn’t exist anymore exactly like she was. And I don’t mean that in, , like a spiritual, like we’re, we’re all constantly evolving, you know? Although, I believe we are all constantly evolving, but I mean this in a really practical way too.

The things that matter to me now are not the same things that mattered to me five, six years ago. The space that I need, the word space, maybe we need to define that. I’m talking about an energetic space, and I don’t know how to explain that other than I hope you know what I mean by that. But like the energetic space that I need has gotten bigger, and the kind of life that I really wanna be living is clearer.

And when I went down there and I felt that space and I realized that it was lovely, amazing, beautiful, awesome, and I realized that it didn’t have room for all of me. I wasn’t rejecting the plan, but I was honoring what I know now that I actually need. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s like this part that’s, that’s really important is that I didn’t fail because I changed my mind.

I succeeded because I listened, and this was a really important lesson. I think it was like a pivotal point in my whole journey There was a version of me that wanted to live at the beach, and that version of me doesn’t exist anymore. She’s dead. There’s a version of me that lives now, and maybe it’ll still be at the beach, but it won’t be anywhere that I thought, and I have to give space instead of trying to push this.

And I think when we’re trying to make big decisions, I’m not making this change. I’m not changing my mind. I’m not even saying never. I’m just saying the way I was doing it, it’s not right. Something’s not right. And I have done a lot of pushing in my life, and I have pushed when something didn’t feel right because I thought that the pushing was the same as being committed.

I thought that it meant that I was being brave. I thought it meant that I wasn’t being flaky. I don’t ever wanna be flaky or indecisive. And it is possible to be brave and also to not force something that doesn’t have to be forced right now. You know, my lease isn’t up until mid-February. I could break it pretty easily.

It was like two grand to break it, which I really don’t wanna spend two grand either. , If… I’m not, uh, dying in love with where I wanna go that I can’t even wait one more minute. , I d- it’s not like I got two grand to blow. I could. I could push. I could try to make the Florida thing work anyway. I could say, “I’m just gonna go down for a year,” and schlep all my stuff down.

Half of it’ll probably get broken in the move. Y- you know how it goes. But the version of me, the one who knows how to listen, she said, “No.” She said, “You don’t actually have to do that. You can stay. You can think about this. You can explore. You can check out California again with new eyes.” When I went home to Vermont a couple weeks ago, all my girlfriends live, , in New York City.

. All of them live in New England. All of my friends from growing up, my really good friend Molly that I went to Morocco with earlier this year, New York City. My best friend from growing up, New York City. , One of my other really good friends that I talk to all the time, have for years, New York City.

Like, maybe it’s New York City. Maybe I could just stay in Atlanta. I could, my lease could end and I could go month to month., I don’t have to know right now. And I want you to hear this in case you’re in the middle of a big decision, right? Not knowing right now is not the same as being stuck. I have struggled with this ’cause I’m like, “Oh, I wanna know.

I wanna know,” because I’m looking forward to where it is. But when I went to Vermont, I recognized that one of the things that was so great about being home was my friends. It was being with people that knew me forever. It was, it was f- like just feeling like I could, I could sleep. I know that’s a weird thing.

Like, I could just felt like I could just …, my friend Heather, I just wanted to be like, “Can I sit on your lap? Like, I just need to rest.” And I, it was that feeling of being carried by people we love. And then I think about my son. He’s totally fine if I leave. He’s “Leave. Go to California.” I mean, he’s encouraging me.

And we also do a lot of things together. We run out for tacos once a week. We share chicken salad when I buy too much chicken salad. , There are really good things in that, too. And I think before I did this whole experiment, I was overlooking some of the really good things in my life. And so, you know, sometimes listening to yourself means appreciating where you are.

Sometimes it means slowing down. Sometimes it means, let me just feel into this thing a little bit longer. Let me see what else is available. Let me not force something because I’m afraid of not, of looking like I changed my mind, you know? So I decided the people who think you’re gonna be flaky for changing your mind are not the people who need to be in your life.

The people who matter … And I’ll tell you, nobody thinks I’m flaking. The, uh, and the messages I all got w- like, were so nice and supportive. People were , genuinely interested. Like, “How are you doing this? What’s happening?” But the people who matter, the people who love you, the people who get it, they get it.

They understand that you’re listening to yourself, and if they don’t get it yet, that’s okay, too. But I want you to know something. You have the capacity to know yourself better than anyone. Your intuition knows what fits and what doesn’t fit, and I think our bodies know when something is too small or doesn’t have the room for who you’re becoming.

And the thing that took me so long to understand is that it is not arrogant to listen to that energetic bubble. It’s actually the most honest thing I think you can do for yourself. It’s telling yourself, hey, your feelings matter here, your f- your needs matter. And,, if you’ve been here for a while and you

even if you just listened to the birthday episode and you heard me talking about how I was told a lot as a young woman after my mom died, you know, that my feelings didn’t matter, that my needs didn’t really matter. Other people’s needs mattered more, and I believed that for a long time, and I don’t believe that anymore.

And so what’s the best way to honor and to, prove to my nervous system that that’s not true? Is to pause. I’m not gonna pretend something fits when it doesn’t just so I can prove that I can stick to a plan. So I’m staying in Atlanta for right now. I’m staying in my apartment. I’m staying open to what comes, and I’m really, really glad that I went down to Florida.

I’m really glad that I tested it. I’m really glad I got to hang out with my friend Kim. I’m gonna go back down probably more times than not, and I’m so pleased with myself because now I know. I know what fits and what doesn’t, and maybe that will fit later. Maybe I’ll go down and visit Kim, and then I’ll be like, “You know what?

I can see my life here.” But that’s how you get clarity. , That’s how you get information, you know? That’s a, a big difference, I think, between trying to live the life you thought you should have, ’cause for decades I thought that was the life I should have. The moment … I remember we were driving. Kim and I were driving, and I remember thinking like, “I have dreamt of this moment of having the choice to say, ‘I’m coming here.

I’m gonna live here. I’m gonna be able to drive to the ocean in 10 minutes.'” , I have dreamt of that, but the actuality of that it, it, something wasn’t quite right yet. Yet. You know when something feels right and when it doesn’t, and your job is just to listen. My job is just to trust the feeling enough to act on it, even when it doesn’t look like how you thought it was gonna look., But I think that there also has been a lot of grief around that. I think I came home, it’s, I’ve been home now for a month, having this realization, am I ever gonna go to the beach? Is the beach the place?

, I never, m- I never imagined the beach, , in the cold. Like, I never imagined, like, Maine being my beach. Do you know what I mean? It was always, , tropical beach, warmer beach, Florida at least, ? And so I think there’s been a grieving because I’m recognizing and I had such a realization that the version of me that l- lived there, is kinda gone, you know?

And I, I think there was, like, some sadness in that. I had to… You know, I, I always say, like, when we get divorced, we have to let go of this version of us or this version of our lives that we thought we would have, and I felt like that’s what was happening to me. , I was re- I was really grieving it. It was like on that one podcast with Joy when we recorded the Q&A for my birthday, I was crying, I was so overjoyed.

And now, like, I, I, now I’m crying ’cause it’s not what I thought. And, a- a- and here’s the thing, I’m open to anything, and I’m gonna stop- I’m just gonna … I, I guess I’ll say it like this. I’m gonna just become hyper-aware. I’m just gonna be being for a while. I’m gonna notice what lights me up. I made a list ’cause I was like, “What do, what do I want?”

And I made a list, and I made sure that the list didn’t include anything that I could discount. So this is what I would do. I would say, , “I wanna have, I wanna be by the beach, but I need to be near a big airport. , I, I wanna be near, on the ocean, but I need to be in a place where I could potentially afford to buy someplace.”

So everything has these caveats. So I was like, “I wanna make a list.” Like, I want, I want a screened-in porch for my cat. That’s what I want. I wanna be able to drive to someplace where I feel inspired. I want to be able to feel like I can … Like I belong. I wanna feel rooted. One of the things I noticed when I was in Florida was that I really wanted to

This is gonna sound silly, but I really wanted to be able to wear winter jackets. , I grew up in Vermont, like 10 minutes from the Canadian border. , I wanted to be able to, to have seasons. And I got there, and it was my birthday weekend, and it was so hot down there. And although I loved it, I thought, “Could I live in it?”

Everything changed. So I started just making lists of, this feels good. It feels good to think about having a big patio for my cat. It feels good to have a place where I have close friendships, the kind where you can open the door and say, “Hey,” and not have to knock, you know? It feels good to have … And so I just started making the list and not worrying if it contradicted anything else on the list.

I just made my list, and I’m adding to the list, and the list is just the things that feel good. Will I get all the things? Well, that’d be great, but I don’t know that life works that way. There is grief. There is loss in everything. If I go to the beach, I’m losing things in Atlanta, and if I stay in Atlanta, I’m losing the dream of the beach.

But now I realize that maybe the vision, maybe the dream is shifted a little bit, and so I’m gonna just let that be. I’m gonna let that be what it is. I’m in no rush. Life is just waiting for me, and I know that when we go through something big like this, it means there’s something really amazing coming, and I’m gonna just let that thing come without trying to push or control it.

Ah. And when you can do that, I think that is when you live a big life. All right. Thanks so much for being here this week. Thanks for being on this journey. I’m open to idea- if you live in a beautiful place and you’re like, “You should come visit,” let me know, ’cause I will check it out. I will add it to my list, and we’ll, we’ll see how it all unfolds.

All right. See you guys next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy P, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show today. I have been doing… I, I’ve been on w- I’ve been on what I call a podcast tour. So I have been on a podcast tour where I am guests on people’s podcasts. I’ll be sharing those so you can listen if you’re interested, but it’s been really fun. We’ve had dozens of them scheduled, and I have been doing, , it feels like a podcast a day.

I did one yesterday. I did one this morning, early this morning. And so as I’ve been doing that, there has been something that’s been coming up, and I thought, “You know what? This keeps coming up in all these conversations, and I feel like it’s a really good conversation to have together here on the show.”

And I think even if you are , if you’re listening , and you’re thinking like, “I’m single,” or, “I’m happily married,” this, the… I, wanna say it like this, like the, root of what I’m saying can kind of overlap lots of situations even though the dynamic that I’m gonna explain it in is gonna be about your marriage, okay?

With a- w- your partnership, your relationship, whatever that looks like. And I’m gonna try and relate back to other things just so you can kinda see how this overlays lots of things, as, as things do. You know? Nothing is in a vacuum, as they say. So one of the things that keeps coming up in these conversations is about what I hear from so many women, and it is that they know that they would like to leave their husband.

And they say like, “If, if you could just wave a magic wand. , I just wanna be down the street in my apartment and settled and be through this thing. I don’t wanna have to actually go through this thing. I just wanna be done with it.” And I hear this over and over and over again, and I have said this. I have said this so many times in my journal.

When I look back in my journals, it’s, it, , there is c- so often, like these exact words. , “I am so clear that I don’t wanna be here. I’m so clear that this feels terrible, and I don’t wanna go through what I have to go through in order to get to where I wanna be. And if I could just snap my fingers and be there, then absolutely that is what I would do.”

And I think, you know, I think this process is hard. Any time you are moving from one place to another place that you wanna be, whether it’s a big move, leaving a relationship, changing your career, it is hard. And being in the middle of it is hard, and deciding you’re gonna step into what you know is gonna be like a little hurricane before you get to where you wanna go is really hard But what I realized when I started hearing this repeatedly is that there is something underneath that wish.

There is something that’s really important, and I want to talk about that. You guys have … You may have heard me talk about this earlier in the year, but on January 1st of this year, I woke up and I was, I was mad. I was I woke up, like, big mad, and I don’t ever wake up mad. , I don’t wanna say ever, never, ’cause I did one day on January 1st, but I, I

That is not a typical thing. Like, I’m pretty, , springy out of bed and happy-go-lucky. But this year, I woke up and I was mad. And I woke up mad and I thought, “This is really weird,” because I love, , the, the beginning of a week, the first of a month. Give me the beginning of a year, , I’m like, fresh starts.

Like, I love all that stuff, you know? I love setting goals and I love, like, all, of what n- New Year’s means. And so it was weird to me that I felt so angry, and the first thing I thought was that I was mad at my former husband. And that was a weird feeling, because I don’t really think about him. And I realized that I was

The, the feeling felt so im- , urgent. It felt very urgent, and my instinct really was, like, it’s the first of the year. I have the day off. There’s a lot to celebrate. I need to just put this aside. Like, brush it asi- you know how we do., I’m gonna focus on other things. And then I thought, “No, no, no. Let me sit.

I wanna get, I wanna get big, big mad. I wanna figure this out. , Why is this at my doorstep?” And so I sat. Like you may know, I have my, my thinking chair. And so I sat in my chair and I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I let myself feel it, all the places it was in my body, where it was settling, h- what it felt to me like it looked like, like, how the weight of it, like, all the things.

And after some time of noodling through what was actually happening, I realized something. It was that I wasn’t mad at him. I was mad at me. I was mad at all those times, all those different circumstances where I should have stood up for myself, where I should have risen from my seat and said, “No more,” and walked away, where I should have said something and I didn’t.

And what I recognized after some time was that in each of those situations that I was mad at And that morning, it just, all these instances came into my mind, and what I realized was that each version of me in those situations I was remembering, that version of me that stayed in that difficult situation, was a version of me that was adapting and changing.

And she wasn’t always adapting and changing to my detriment. You know, when I, thought back of all these instances, and I was… I thought, “I’m mad at him for this, and I’m mad at him for that, and I’m mad at him,” and I realized I was mad at me for not standing up and leaving. I was mad at me for allowing someone to treat me that way.

And when I really sat with it, I realized that I was growing into the version of me who could finally choose herself. And when it was finally time to leave, the version of myself that was resolute and clear and ready for what was next was forged because of those moments. She didn’t stay longer because she was unable.

She stayed longer because she ne- needed to be fortified to be able to make a different choice. You know, th- just like you in your marriage or at your work or whatever it is that you’re going through, there are so many moments, you know, when, when you think like, “I knew something wasn’t right. Like, I felt it.

I had the knowing, but I didn’t act on it.” And I think that is what had made me so mad on January 1st. I was mad at all the moments that I had the knowing and I didn’t do anything. But it really changed everything when I got this different perspective, that those moments, those versions of me that stayed even though I knew something was wrong, they weren’t weak.

It was me adapting. It was me gathering evidence. It was me becoming a version of myself that would eventually be the version of myself that sits here now. So when I felt the anger on January 1st, I,, I was angry at all the places where I had the knowing and didn’t act But those versions of me weren’t weak, they were adapting.

. We think of adapting like it’s something that happens to us, like it’s defeat. But adaptation can actually be one of the most powerful things that you can do as a human. It is how we survive. It is, it is how we evolve.

It is how we become whoever we need to be for the next moment. And I want you to think about the different versions of yourself. You know, not the versions that people see, the versions that you know about. You know, the versions of you that maybe knew something was wrong, but didn’t have the language for it yet.

I found this in my marriage, that having the language for things made really complicated, hurtful experiences make more sense. Language is so important, and I think there is a version of you that likely didn’t believe that you deserved better, right? There’s a version of you that rationalized and minimized and made excuses.

There is a version of you that people-pleased so close to the sun that you disappeared a little bit every single day. Do you see what I’m saying? Those versions of you aren’t, failures. They’re like … It’s like a way station, ? They’re the place where you had to learn something, where you gathered a whole bunch of evidence, and where you built the muscle of knowing that something didn’t feel right, even when you weren’t ready to act on it.

I think that distinction is really important, because we can know something but still not be ready to act on it, and that is an okay place to be. What’s important is that we are honest with ourselves about our knowing. And every single one of those versions of you are necessary. , Every single moment of, staying small, every single moment of adaptation, , every single moment of where you knew but didn’t act is really important, because they led somewhere.

So I couldn’t have gotten to the place that I got without being in the place that I was. That version of me, I feel like I’m kinda going around the horse a million times, but that version of me was made up of all those other versions, right? She was the accumulated learning of a woman who had tried everything else, and she was the resolved version of someone who had finally, gotten to the point where staying was more painful than leaving.

And that is the thing that I think women are missing when they say, “I just wanna be divorced without going through the process.” And I understand, , I get it, the process is hard, but the process is also what makes you strong. The process is what forges you. And, you know, when I, when I say that, I think about, like, pottery.

You know, like real pottery. When a potter makes a piece of pottery, a bowl or a cup, they don’t just decide it’s gonna be a bowl and then it’s a bowl. They have to work with the clay. ? They do that thing on the wheel like in Ghost, right? They, have to feel places where it’s too thick and it’s too thin, and sometimes they have to squish it all down and remake it and start over.

And then you have to be really careful and take it into a kiln, right? Where it’s, , thousands of degrees, and the heat is what makes it hard. It’s the heat that actually… I mean, the, it’s the pressure that gives it the shape, but it’s, the heat of it that makes it strong So going through that process, like I don’t wanna go through it, that’s, it’s, it is the reclamation.

It’s the good part. It feels bad, but it is the part that is making you into the version of you that is the beautiful piece of pottery. And if you’ve been wondering about your marriage for a long time, or a big decision for a long time, if you’re someone who has felt the knowing and not acted on it yet, or if you have been waiting for permission to leave, or waiting for something else to happen, or if you’re somebody who’s, , in the process right now, and you’re in the middle of it, and it is hard, I want you to know that every version of you that adapted, every version of you that stayed through something hard, that was you becoming something.

That was you gathering evidence. That was you building the strength and the clarity that you would have what you needed for what came next. And, , I think about this sometime as I’m making this decision to move. , It’s hard. There’s a lot of things that I’m weighing. There’s things that I never even thought were important until I got to the place where I had to decide.

There are versions of me that I have imagined that I’m not sure if they’ll exist in one place or the other. And so I know that going through a move, like I don’t wanna pack, I don’t wanna… All of that is what it’s gonna take to get to the other side. The expense, the, struggle, the hard work of doing it.

Now, remarkably, it is remarkably easier than leaving a long-term partnership. But in so many ways it’s similar. But what I’ve learned, and what you learn when you go through any hard thing, it’s that if you could just have waved a magic wand and gotten through it, you wouldn’t be somebody who could sustain it. You’d, be a different person, and not the kind of person who could be on the other side. I know that I’ve gotta go through making this hard decision on whether to move or not, which I know is a very small thing, but it feels big.

It feels big. And I’m not so much worried about making a right or wrong decision, but I am worried about all the work it’s gonna take to get to wherever I wanna go. And I know that when I go through that, I will know myself better, I will learn more about myself, I will know that I can survive minor inconveniences and hard things, and that I can make a decision, and I can stick with that decision, and that I can have a voice, and I can do things that I wanna do.

And that is the process. That’s what the process gives you, and that’s what going through it creates for you. So if you have been in the wanting to leave but not in the processing place right now, “I wanna leave, but I don’t wanna go through the process of leaving,” I want you to know something. The process, it isn’t punishment.

It’s, it’s not a tax that you have to pay to get to the other side. It is a process that is the thing that makes you. It is the thing that takes all of those other versions of you, all of those other moments of staying small, and gathering, and knowing, and it turns them into something unbreakable. You’re not weak for having stayed.

You’re strong because you stayed. You’re strong because you learned, and you’re strong because you finally got to the point where you were ready And so if you’re in that right now, and you’re tired, and you’re scared, and you’re grieving, I want you to know that you are being forged. Every hard conversation that you show up to, every piece of paperwork, every moment where you have to be stronger than you thought you could be, that is the pottery wheel.

That’s the kiln. That’s where you becoming the version of yourself that can build a new life is being forged. So you already know this on some level. You already know that you just can’t skip ahead over the hard parts. I wish we could and end up on the other side unchanged. I remember saying to my sister, “I don’t want this to change me.

I don’t want to be changed.” And she said, “You already are.” And I thought, “Oh, so true.” Maybe going through the hard part is a way of reclaiming ourselves. You already know that becoming someone new takes time, and heat, and pressure. And you already know that the strength that you’re gonna have on the other side of this is something that you have to earn.

And I want you to listen to that knowing. I want you to trust it. And I think when you can do that, that is how you live a big life. Thanks so much for being here with me this week. I love you guys so much. I will see you next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.